1

           1

           2       

           3            TASK FORCE ON COMMUNITY SCHOOL DISTRICT 

           4                       GOVERNANCE REFORM

           5                                

           6                                

           7                                

           8            Task Force on Community School District 

           9         Governance Reform Developing recommendations 

          10        regarding the powers and duties of the New York 

          11                 City community school boards 

          12       

          13       

          14       

          15       

          16                       6 Metrotech Center

          17                       Brooklyn, New York

          18                                

          19                        January 16, 2003

          20                         9:18 A.M.    

          21                    

          22       

          23       

          24       

          25       




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

                                                                 2

           1

           2       M E M B E R S:

           3       

           4             HONORABLE STEVEN SANDERS, Co-Chair

           5             TERRI THOMSON, Co-Chair

           6             HONORABLE AUDREY PHEFFER

           7             YANGHEE HAHN

           8             RENEE C. HILL

           9             KATHRYN WYLDE

          10             ROBIN BROWN

          11             ERNEST CLAYTON

          12             HONORABLE PETER RIVERA

          13             GERALD LEVIN

          14             JANE ARCE-BELLO

          15             VIRGINIA KEE

          16             JACK FRIEDMAN

          17             CASSANDRA MULLEN

          18             C. BUNNY REDDINGTON

          19             ROSE McKENNA

          20             ROBERT DeLEON

          21             

          22             

          23       

          24       

          25       




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:   Good morning, 

           3             everybody.  This is the fifth and final 

           4             public hearing being conducted by the Task 

           5             Force on Community School District 

           6             Governance Reform.  My name is Steve 

           7             Sanders.  I'm chairman of the Assembly 

           8             Education Committee and Co-Chair of this 

           9             task force. 

          10                    To my left, who you will hear from in 

          11             just a moment, is Terri Thomson, who is the 

          12             other Co-Chair of this task force.  As many 

          13             of you know, earlier last year in June of 

          14             2002, the state legislature voted to change 

          15             the governance structure of the New York 

          16             City Public School System. 

          17                    There were many changes that were 

          18             enacted into law at that time.  One of the 

          19             changes that the state legislature provided 

          20             for was that as of June 30, the end of this 

          21             school year, the 32 local community school 

          22             boards would go out of being.  Would cease 

          23             to exist. 

          24                    While the state legislature abolished 

          25             the local community school boards, it did 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             not abolish local community school 

           3             representation.  In fact, the legislation 

           4             passed in June was very clear that it is the 

           5             intent of the state legislature to replace 

           6             community representation and parental input 

           7             with some other system and some other entity 

           8             that hopefully will be more effective and 

           9             provide even greater representation than 

          10             that which existed for the past 30 years. 

          11                    To that end, the legislation created 

          12             this task force.  This is a 20-member task 

          13             force.  10 members appointed by the Speaker 

          14             Of The Assembly, 10 members appointed by the 

          15             Senate Majority Leader. 

          16                    We were required in law to hold five 

          17             public hearings, one in every borough.  

          18             Today is the fifth and final of those public 

          19             hearings.  We're also required to conduct 

          20             such meetings and have such information 

          21             provided to us that would enable us to make 

          22             a recommendation and a proposal to the state 

          23             legislature and the Governor no later than 

          24             February 15.  And that proposal is required 

          25             to fully outline what this task force 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             believes we ought to do to provide for the 

           3             kind of community representation and 

           4             parental input that the law always 

           5             anticipated. 

           6                    So that is what we are doing today.  

           7             That is what we have been doing for the last 

           8             several months.  Listening very carefully to 

           9             what the people of The City of New York have 

          10             to say and want. 

          11                    We are going to meet our February 15 

          12             deadline.  We, of course, are mindful of all 

          13             of the proposals and all of the 

          14             recommendations, including those that have 

          15             been made most recently, and obviously, we 

          16             will incorporate into our thinking all of 

          17             the views represented by scores and scores 

          18             of New Yorkers. 

          19                    Today is going to be a very busy day.  

          20             For all of our hearings, we divided the 

          21             hearing portion of the day into two 

          22             segments.  The first one beginning in the 

          23             morning and lasting until about 4:00, 5:00 

          24             in the evening, and always mindful of the 

          25             fact that some of the people who most want 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             to express their views are parents or 

           3             working men and women who cannot get out 

           4             until after 5:00 or after 6:00, and we have 

           5             always had in each of the other boroughs, as 

           6             we do today, an evening session. 

           7                    Because of what we anticipate to be a 

           8             very, very, very lengthy day, we moved up 

           9             the starting time to closer to 9:00 this 

          10             morning, and for the edification of the 

          11             members of task force, we have reserved this 

          12             room for 11:59 and 59 seconds tonight.  So 

          13             we were told that we could stay here until 

          14             the very end of the day, and we may in fact 

          15             need to do so. 

          16                    One of the good things that this task 

          17             force has been able to do, which we may not 

          18             be able to do today as well, is that we have 

          19             had a certain amount of engagement with the 

          20             witnesses.  A good amount of give and take.  

          21             Questions and answers. 

          22                    Because of the length of the 

          23             schedule, I am just advising the task force 

          24             members and just for the edification of 

          25             those who are here in the room, that we will 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             probably not have time to engage in a lot of 

           3             questions and answers.  What we really want 

           4             to do is to hear from the 100 plus people 

           5             who have already signed up and perhaps 

           6             others, and in order to do that, I think 

           7             we're going to have to limit our own 

           8             inquiries of the witnesses as best as we can 

           9             in order so that we can hear from as many 

          10             people who wish to inform this task force 

          11             about their views. 

          12                    The other thing I need to mention, 

          13             which I will be repeating during the day, 

          14             that because of the length of the day, I am 

          15             going to have to very, very strictly limit 

          16             the witnesses, with the exception of the 

          17             Chancellor for obvious reasons, I'm going to 

          18             have to limit the witnesses to what our 

          19             hearing notice in fact had indicated, a 

          20             five-minute testimony. 

          21                    I know the five minutes isn't a lot 

          22             of time, especially when we're dealing with 

          23             a subject as important and as immense as 

          24             school governance at the local level, but it 

          25             will be necessary to do that, and I will be 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             cuing people when they are close to their 

           3             five minutes, a 30-second reminder, and then 

           4             I may have to be very rude, and you'll have 

           5             to forgive me.  I don't like to interrupt 

           6             people, but after five minutes I will have 

           7             to do so to keep the schedule moving as well 

           8             as we possibly can. 

           9                    In a moment, I will ask the members 

          10             of the task force to briefly introduce 

          11             themselves and say one or two things about 

          12             themselves.  Whatever they wish to. 

          13                    Now I would just like to turn to the 

          14             Co-Chair of this task force, former member 

          15             of the Board of Education and a very good 

          16             friend, Terri Thomson.

          17                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thanks, 

          18             Assemblyman Sanders.  Good morning, 

          19             everyone.  I thought I'd take the 

          20             opportunity to do a little business with the 

          21             task force members this morning, and just 

          22             review some of the materials you've received 

          23             and just talk about the process going 

          24             forward. 

          25                    As you know, early on you received -- 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             if you haven't received any of these 

           3             reports, please let me know and we'll make 

           4             sure you get copies. 

           5                    Early on we provided you with a 

           6             report from Debra Land on school boards.  

           7             Debra Land is an expert on school governance 

           8             from John Hopkins.  You should have a copy 

           9             of that.  We provided you with some terrific 

          10             briefing material done by Ernest Tolerson at 

          11             the New York City Partnership. 

          12                    You also received a report, the 

          13             McGeorge Bundy report, which was the Mayor's 

          14             Advisor Panel on decentralization of New 

          15             York City schools when John Lindsey was 

          16             Mayor, and the report was dated November 

          17             1967, and oh, how things have not changed.

          18                    Today I'm providing you with a 

          19             report, Steve and I met with the Assistant 

          20             Commissioner of Education of New York State, 

          21             James Kadamas the other day, and he provided 

          22             us with a report, New York State School 

          23             Accountability Plan, it's in front of you, 

          24             under No Child Left Behind. 

          25                    This was the New York State plan 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             approved by the US Department of Education 

           3             this morning.  And the last page is 

           4             particularly relevant to our work.  By 

           5             week's end, you will receive transcripts 

           6             from the first three hearings that we held 

           7             in the Bronx, Manhattan and Queens.  Within 

           8             a few days early next week you'll receive 

           9             the Staten Island transcript, and hopefully, 

          10             as soon as possible, thanks to our 

          11             transcriber, you will receive today's 

          12             transcript, because these are very important 

          13             as we begin our work. 

          14                    We have formally requested from the 

          15             Chancellor some information as allowed under 

          16             the legislation which rules us.  We've asked 

          17             for any evaluation on school leadership 

          18             teams that have been done in-house at the 

          19             Department of Education.  We've asked for 

          20             the formal report that was done or is being 

          21             done by the New York Urban League on school 

          22             leadership teams, and any relevant 

          23             information from the Children First public 

          24             engagement meetings that's relevant to the 

          25             work ahead of us, and some particular 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             information on school board representation.  

           3             And we asked the Chancellor to provide us 

           4             with that by the end of next week, so that's 

           5             part of our discussion as we begin the 

           6             process. 

           7                    The process will then be, for after 

           8             today's hearing, there will be a series of 

           9             meetings.  As you know, we've asked you all 

          10             to try to keep your Thursdays and Fridays 

          11             free for the next three weeks. 

          12                    The meetings may include legal 

          13             counsel, as well as additional testimony 

          14             from some experts in the field.  Our final 

          15             report is due to the state legislature on 

          16             February 15, 2003, and we hope to make that 

          17             deadline. 

          18                    That's where we are.  If you haven't 

          19             received any of these pieces of material, 

          20             let me know.  We'll make sure you get them, 

          21             and now maybe we'll begin at the far right 

          22             and ask each of the task force members to 

          23             introduce themselves, and I can't see who's 

          24             at my far right.  Is that you, Ernest?

          25                    MR. CLAYTON:    Yes.  My name is 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             Ernest Clayton, president of the United 

           3             Parents Associations of New York City.  I 

           4             have six sons currently or past in the New 

           5             York City public school system.  I myself am 

           6             a product of the New York City school system 

           7             and a CUNY grad.  Thank you.

           8                    MS. WYLDE:   Kathy Wylde, I am 

           9             president of the New York Partnership, a 

          10             city-wide business organization, and 

          11             resident of Bay Ridge, Brooklyn.

          12                    MS. BROWN:   Robin Brown, 

          13             Chancellor's Parent Advisory Council, it's 

          14             the representation of the 40 districts as we 

          15             know them currently in New York City, and I 

          16             am the parent of two children currently 

          17             attending public school right here in 

          18             community school district 13. 

          19                    MS. PHEFFER:    Thank you.  Good 

          20             morning.  Assemblywoman Audrey Pheffer.  I 

          21             represent the Rockaway, Howard Beach, Ozone 

          22             Park area, 23rd assembly district, and sat 

          23             on the original School Governance Committee.

          24                    MR. LEVIN:   Jerry Levin, retired 

          25             CEO of AOL Time Warner and representing my 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             family, which is committed to public 

           3             education of the City of New York, and we 

           4             have many teachers in my family.

           5                    MS. ARCE-BELLO:   Good morning.  I'm 

           6             Jane Arce-Bello, community activist from the 

           7             Bronx.

           8                    MS. KEE:   Good morning.  I'm 

           9             Virginia Kee.  I've been a classroom teacher 

          10             for 34 years, and I am the founding member 

          11             of the Chinese American Planning Council, 

          12             the largest service organization in the 

          13             United States.

          14                    MR. FRIEDMAN:   Good morning.  My 

          15             name is Jack Friedman.  I'm a former member 

          16             of community school board 26 for 11 years 

          17             and I have two children currently attending 

          18             high schools in New York City public 

          19             schools, and I'm a resident of northeast 

          20             Queens.

          21                    MS. REDDINGTON:    Good morning.  My 

          22             name is Bunny Reddington, currently serving 

          23             as vice chair on community school board 31 

          24             in Staten Island.

          25                    MS. McKENNA:   Good morning.  My 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             name is Rose McKenna, and I'm a former 

           3             member of community school board 10 in the 

           4             Bronx, and I served 36 years in the New York 

           5             City public school system as teacher and 

           6             supervisor.

           7                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Okay.  I just 

           8             want to remind everyone who's scheduled to 

           9             speak that there is a five-minute limit, and 

          10             particularly today.  In the past we've gone 

          11             beyond that because we had the luxury of 

          12             time, but today we have over 100 speakers.  

          13             So it's very important to stick to the 

          14             limit. 

          15                    We'll begin with Michael Rebell, 

          16             executive director of the Campaign For 

          17             Fiscal Equity.

          18                    MR. REBELL:   Thank you, Ms. 

          19             Thomson, Mr. Sanders, members of the 

          20             committee.  I very much appreciate this 

          21             second opportunity to speak to you.  Last 

          22             time when I addressed the committee I gave 

          23             the history, the background and the results 

          24             of the Campaign For Fiscal Equity's 

          25             extensive public engagement process on 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             school accountability, which is accompanying 

           3             our lawsuit.  As you know, Justice DeGrass, 

           4             in his order in our case, did call for the 

           5             State to take a whole knew look at 

           6             accountability, and our plan is very much 

           7             based on school-level accountability.  I'm 

           8             not going to get into that now. 

           9                    What I want to talk about is where 

          10             the situation seems to be, especially in 

          11             light of the Mayor's statements yesterday.  

          12             A lot of open questions.  We all are waiting 

          13             to hear the Chancellor fill them in. 

          14                    But I want to emphasize a few 

          15             important points that I hope this group will 

          16             keep in mind.  I think we all know that the 

          17             literature has shown and experience has 

          18             shown that you need three basic elements for 

          19             successful schools.  And those elements are 

          20             a solid instructional program, resources and 

          21             serious community involvement.  The school 

          22             has to be a working community.

          23                    I think the Mayor's proposal so far 

          24             are dealing in a very dramatic and 

          25             progressive way on the instruction front.  




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             On the resource front, we all know we have 

           3             problems.  What I can tell is through our 

           4             lawsuit at least, we're going to be dealing 

           5             with that element in as strong a way as 

           6             possible. 

           7                    What I want to concentrate on today 

           8             is that third part, the community element, 

           9             because from what we've heard of the Mayor, 

          10             quite frankly, I don't think there is enough 

          11             meat, enough substance, enough real 

          12             consideration for it.  And I want to remind 

          13             you just from my lawyer's point of view, in 

          14             defining a sound basic education, the 

          15             critical, legal component in Article 11 of 

          16             the Constitution, the Court of Appeals has 

          17             made clear that the basic purpose of public 

          18             education in this State is to prepare 

          19             students for civic participation.  And I 

          20             think that's relevant here. 

          21                    We have to have communities.  We have 

          22             to have schools that are working in that 

          23             direction, and the court had good reason for 

          24             emphasizing that.  You're not going to have 

          25             a successful school if you haven't motivated 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             people to feel that they're real 

           3             participants. 

           4                    How does that relate to the specific 

           5             issues that are before us based on the 

           6             Mayor's comments yesterday?  The Mayor calls 

           7             for a new emphasis on parent involvement.  

           8             He called for parent engagement boards.  He 

           9             called for a parent coordinator in each 

          10             school.  These are great proposals.  It 

          11             looks like we're going to get attention.  

          12             We're going to get resources on really 

          13             getting parent commitment and parent 

          14             involvement. 

          15                    But there's something important here 

          16             that has to be flushed out, and I hope that 

          17             the Chancellor is going to do it today, and 

          18             that means real authority for parents.  Not 

          19             just window dressing.  Not just getting them 

          20             into the buildings.  And I want to say, 

          21             without being overly critical of Children 

          22             First, it was a phenomenal effort there.

          23                    They got 50,000 parents to come in 

          24             and relate to the process, but there's been 

          25             something missing there.  Now maybe it was 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             necessary because of the time pressures of 

           3             getting that plan together, but you got 

           4             input from a lot of parents.  You didn't get 

           5             engagement.  You didn't get them seriously 

           6             involved in decision making.  You didn't get 

           7             them having the feel that they're part of a 

           8             process where their voices really count. 

           9                    You got to have back and forth. 

          10             There's a whole theory of public engagement 

          11             that we've been working to.  We've been 

          12             doing dozens of hearings around the State. 

          13             We have a lot to say about it, but I only 

          14             have five minutes.

          15                    Let me just say this, when you're 

          16             looking at the law, what kind of structure 

          17             is going to be called for to replace 

          18             community school boards?  I think you got to 

          19             look at two levels, and this would be 

          20             consistent with what the Mayor is saying, 

          21             but try to flush it out.  Both on the school 

          22             level and at the regional level, and if 

          23             we're now talking about 10 regional centers 

          24             or whatever, but what we've got to do is 

          25             give real authority to these boards in a way 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             that does not create bureaucratic structures 

           3             that interfere with efficient central 

           4             control. 

           5                    You can have bottom up authority in a 

           6             system that also has serious efficient 

           7             central control, and the way to do it is, 

           8             you concentrate on the areas that the law 

           9             already talks about as involving parent 

          10             rights and parent involvement, and that's 

          11             things like the Comprehensive Education 

          12             Plan, and under No Child Left Behind, the 

          13             role of the corrective action plan is really 

          14             critical, and I think what you got to look 

          15             at is the structure and authority of parents 

          16             and other members of the community.  Whether 

          17             it's through school leadership teams or some 

          18             other group that you come up with. 

          19                    And it shouldn't only be parents.  

          20             You have to mobilize the whole school 

          21             community for this, and you have to give 

          22             them a real buy into whatever the corrective 

          23             action plan is or whatever the Comprehensive 

          24             Education Plan is. 

          25                    So that can be consistent with a 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             uniform emphasis on curriculum, if that's 

           3             what's going to be in math and other 

           4             subjects.  We've got a lot of other 

           5             subjects.  We've got a lot of other things 

           6             going on in the school that parents should 

           7             have a real say in.  And then, there should 

           8             be a similar structure on a regional level.  

           9             There should be serious consideration about 

          10             the relationship between that local team's 

          11             authority to come up with that plan. 

          12                    I don't think they should have 

          13             authority to totally veto it, but for 

          14             instance, on what resources are necessary, 

          15             what kind of priorities there should be 

          16             outside what's mandated centrally.  These 

          17             are critical things.  The parent voice 

          18             should be written out. 

          19                    If there's disagreement -- hopefully 

          20             you push consensus, but the way you get 

          21             consensus is to give people real authority.  

          22             There's got to be some right for people if 

          23             they don't fully agree, to go to the next 

          24             level.  We don't need a cumbersome appeal, 

          25             but there's got to be a public process. 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           2                    It's got to be transparent, which 

           3             unfortunately, so far, the parent 

           4             involvement has not been.  Anyway, we're 

           5             working on a specific proposal to give to 

           6             you along these lines, but I just wanted to 

           7             highlight a few points and I very much 

           8             appreciate you letting me kick this off and 

           9             giving me an extra 20 seconds.

          10                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, I may not 

          11             be so lenient during the course of the day.  

          12             We very much appreciate the fact that you 

          13             have shared your testimony with us again.  

          14             The work that you have done and the CFE suit 

          15             has certainly been a major contribution to 

          16             the entire debate. 

          17                    I think we may have a question.  

          18             Mr. Levin.

          19                    MR. LEVIN:   Just quickly.  Could 

          20             you expand briefly on the concept of civic 

          21             participation and how it relates to our 

          22             assignment?

          23                    MR. REBELL:    Well, I think, if 

          24             that's the basic constitutional legal 

          25             requirement according to the Court of 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             Appeals, my basic point is we can't lose 

           3             site of it, and civic participation means a 

           4             full involvement of a community, and I'm 

           5             saying a community at the local level.  I 

           6             don't want to give the impression the Court 

           7             of Appeals has mandated a particular 

           8             structure for community school boards by 

           9             this, but I think they've highlighted a key 

          10             component of education. 

          11                    And look, the decentralization law 

          12             has got a long history.  There's been a lot 

          13             of criticism of it.  Lots gone wrong over 

          14             the years, but there was an element of that 

          15             that was correct, and that was the idea of 

          16             trying to get community involvement, and 

          17             that's been reiterated by the Court of 

          18             Appeals in 1995, and my basic plea to this 

          19             group is make sure there's a strong element 

          20             for that left in whatever proposal you come 

          21             up with.

          22                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Michael, it 

          23             would probably be useful for us for you to 

          24             highlight a copy of the relevant passage in 

          25             the Court of Appeals ruling.  As well, you 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             said you're submitting recommendations to 

           3             us.  Sooner, rather than later.

           4                    MR. REBELL:    We will try to get 

           5             it.

           6                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We thank you 

           7             very much, Mr. Rebell.

           8                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Fernando 

           9             Ferrer, director, Drum Major Institute, and 

          10             the Honorable Former Borough President of 

          11             the great Borough of the Bronx.

          12                    MR. FERRER:    Good morning, members 

          13             of the task force, old friends, Terri 

          14             Thomson, and Assemblyman Steve Sanders, your 

          15             co-chairs.  I appreciate this opportunity to 

          16             talk with you a little bit about the time 

          17             after community school boards. 

          18                    In 1969, I was on the ramparts for 

          19             decentralization and the creation of 

          20             community school boards.  Today, I'm glad to 

          21             be testifying at a hearing to envision a 

          22             time beyond them. 

          23                    With all due respect, your most 

          24             important task today is not to come up with 

          25             a perfect organizational chart.  Such a 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             process will only ensure that we'll meet 

           3             again sometime in the future at a hearing 

           4             very much like this one. 

           5                    Instead, we can re-envision a system 

           6             that respects the fact that schools are 

           7             inherently public institutions with parents 

           8             as their customers.  If we've learned 

           9             anything from the experiences of the 1968 

          10             legislation that brought us decentralization 

          11             and the 1996 changes that created school 

          12             leadership teams, it's that governance 

          13             reforms alone don't improve public 

          14             education. 

          15                    In the late '60s, the Ford Foundation 

          16             asked a question that they didn't 

          17             unfortunately stay around to answer.  What 

          18             should the relationship be between schools 

          19             and communities?  It's still the right 

          20             question.  Our City, we have all attempted 

          21             to legislate the answer. 

          22                    That is, in large part, why the 

          23             history of who governs in New York City 

          24             schools is one of conflict.  The perennial 

          25             struggle of top down versus local control 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             versus borough control versus all of the 

           3             above has distracted us from developing the 

           4             deep, sustained relationships between 

           5             schools and communities that could actually 

           6             improve public education and elicit support 

           7             for reform. 

           8                    Past governance reforms change 

           9             structures, but they didn't change 

          10             relationships.  And in the spring of 2002, 

          11             as the certainty of mayoral control was 

          12             near, we became concerned that the City was 

          13             looking at a next round of governance reform 

          14             as the panacea for the system's ills. 

          15                    For that reason, the Drum Major 

          16             Institute for Public Policy, a policy 

          17             institute originally created during the 

          18             civil rights movement, whose mission then, 

          19             as today, is to promote social and economic 

          20             justice in the formulation of social policy, 

          21             organized a spring forum on the subject of 

          22             school governance from the relationship up. 

          23                    Three of the members of that panel 

          24             had started public schools.  Each of those 

          25             schools was a success.  Although on paper, 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             none should have been.  And each of the 

           3             founder attributed the strong relationships 

           4             built with parents and communities as 

           5             integral to their success. 

           6                    The data support their experiences.  

           7             Children with involved parents are more 

           8             likely to learn  -- to earn rather higher 

           9             grades and test scores.  Pass their classes.  

          10             Attend school regularly.  Possess better 

          11             school skills.  Behave better in school.  

          12             Graduate and go on to college. 

          13                    The presence of parents in 

          14             communities, improves the climate of the 

          15             school.  Indeed it contributes to a climate 

          16             of success.  Teachers are more effective 

          17             when parents and communities support their 

          18             efforts.   Reforms are more likely to be 

          19             sustained when parents and communities are 

          20             behind them, and schools who can demonstrate 

          21             community support, are more likely to 

          22             attract the interest and commitment of 

          23             outside organizations, such as foundations, 

          24             local businesses and community institutions. 

          25                    Drum Major Institute collaborated 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             with the NYU Institute for Education and 

           3             Social Policy to turn the conversation away 

           4             from the emphasis on top down governance, 

           5             toward bottom up accountability.  We 

           6             produced a report, From Governance To 

           7             Accountability, Building Relationships That 

           8             Make Schools Work, that concluded the 

           9             following: 

          10                    We need to change the paradigm from a 

          11             governance to accountability.  Governance 

          12             reforms alone don't improve schools, despite 

          13             the preoccupation with them in New York and 

          14             other cities.  Our review of the history of 

          15             previous governance reforms illustrate that 

          16             they fail to build the capacity of each 

          17             individual school to improve. 

          18                    Schools improve through local action, 

          19             not through top down mandates.  The schools 

          20             that have succeeded against the odds have 

          21             combined strong leadership and support for 

          22             effective teaching with parent and community 

          23             engagement. 

          24                    Until schools have the capacity, the 

          25             will and the incentive to create these 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             relationships, they won't, and if they do 

           3             not, our schools will lack a critical 

           4             ingredient necessary to transform. 

           5                    Our system continues to suck the 

           6             oxygen out of the relationships with parents 

           7             and communities.  School staff is given no 

           8             training or incentive to view parents and 

           9             communities as partners.  Parent 

          10             Associations and school leadership teams are 

          11             relied upon as primary vehicles for 

          12             involvement, but ultimately ineffective, 

          13             because they depend on the will of 

          14             administrators, and finally, educators work 

          15             from the assumption that middle class 

          16             parents are entitled to access to their 

          17             children's schools, and that their 

          18             participation in those schools is 

          19             legitimate.  Low income parents are not 

          20             viewed similarly. 

          21                    In order to build relationships that 

          22             overcome layers of suspicion, cynicism and 

          23             despair accumulated over decades of 

          24             separation between schools and communities, 

          25             concrete steps will need to be taken to 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             increase parent and community access, 

           3             representation and power in their schools. 

           4                    Each time the system looks at student 

           5             attendance, test scores, teacher-student 

           6             ratios, it must look at the indicators of 

           7             its success in forging meaningful 

           8             relationships with parents in the community.  

           9             We're pleased to see that this 

          10             recommendation offered to Deputy Mayor 

          11             Walcott and Chancellor Klein in November was 

          12             incorporated into Mayor Bloomberg's speech. 

          13                    Until you hold teachers, principals, 

          14             superintendents, and even the Chancellor 

          15             accountable with new performance standards, 

          16             the system will not change and it will be 

          17             the next generations of New York City school 

          18             children who will suffer the consequences. 

          19                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Ferrer, a 

          20             man who has worn many hats and has been a 

          21             good friend to public education and New York 

          22             City residents everywhere, we so much 

          23             appreciate your testimony this morning.  You 

          24             and I had a chance to chat some weeks ago.  

          25             We may want to ask you to join us in one of 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             our meetings to perhaps further elaborate on 

           3             the views and the work that the Drum Major 

           4             Institute is doing, but we so much 

           5             appreciate you being here this morning.

           6                    MR. FERRER:    Thank you, Mr. 

           7             Chairman.  I'm pleased to have provided the 

           8             panel also with copies of our report and 

           9             expect that that will flesh out my 

          10             testimony.  At least I hope it will.

          11                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

          12                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you.

          13                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    We'll be sure 

          14             that each  -- we'll pull it from the web as 

          15             it says here, drummajorinstitute.org and 

          16             make sure all of the task force members 

          17             receive a copy. 

          18                    I too want to thank you for your work 

          19             on parent involvement going back a number of 

          20             years to I think three years ago, you did a 

          21             very detailed study and report on the issue 

          22             of parent involvement.  Thank you.

          23                    MR. FERRER:    Thank you.  As a 

          24             former neighbor of mine in the Bronx once 

          25             said, it is deja vu all over again.




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

           3                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you.

           4                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Jan Atwell, 

           5             program director for United Parents 

           6             Association. 

           7                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Once again, for 

           8             those who have arrived in just the last few 

           9             minutes, I have to strictly limit testimony 

          10             to five minutes.  When you begin to reach 

          11             that point, I'm going to cue you with a 

          12             30-second reminder, but this is not to cut 

          13             you off.  This is to allow as many people to 

          14             testify as we can today.

          15                    MS. ATWELL:   Good morning, task 

          16             force members.  I'm Jan Atwell, program 

          17             director of Unite Parents Association of New 

          18             York City.  I'm here today in place of our 

          19             president and to testify on behalf of UPA's 

          20             membership.  Unit Parents Association is a 

          21             city-wide parent organization that advocates 

          22             on behalf of a better education for all New 

          23             York City's public school children. 

          24                    In the 82 years of UPA's existence, 

          25             the governance issue has come up many, many 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             times, and in each time, UPA has advocated 

           3             for a stronger parent voice at every level 

           4             of governance. 

           5                    Prior to today's hearing, in 

           6             preparation, UPA held discussions and 

           7             surveyed parents at our annual conference, 

           8             our fall academy and our monthly meetings, 

           9             and I'm here today to propose to you UPA's 

          10             plan for a district or mid-level governance 

          11             structure, but before I do, I'd like to 

          12             share with you some of the very clear issues 

          13             that came out of our preliminary discussions 

          14             and analysis. 

          15                    To begin with, the purpose and 

          16             structure.  The primary purpose of any 

          17             district level governance structure is 

          18             viewed as facilitation of parent and 

          19             community input in decision making.  Any 

          20             such body must be given formal decision 

          21             making powers, rather than a purely advisory 

          22             role.  It must hold regular public meetings 

          23             and should be required to send out meeting  

          24             schedules and minutes to parents and others 

          25             in the community. 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2                    Lines of communication and 

           3             accountability should flow from bottom up, 

           4             as well as top down.  With the district body 

           5             linked and responsive to school leadership 

           6             teams at the school level, as well as the 

           7             Chancellor and Panel On Education Policy at 

           8             central. 

           9                    Regarding the composition of a new 

          10             district governance body, most Respondents 

          11             believe that it should contain a parent 

          12             majority, with some representation from the 

          13             wider community.  As under current law 

          14             effecting community school boards, most did 

          15             not feel that employees of the school system 

          16             should sit on these district bodies, because 

          17             of the enormous power and influence they 

          18             wield through their respective labor unions. 

          19                    There's also very strong consensus 

          20             that representatives should be elected, 

          21             rather than appointed, to sit on district 

          22             governance bodies. 

          23                    In terms of powers and 

          24             responsibilities, the most often cited area 

          25             of authority for a district governance body 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             is budget development/approval, followed by 

           3             local policy-making powers.  Other 

           4             frequently mentioned powers that we support 

           5             include development and approval of a 

           6             district Comprehensive Education Plan, a 

           7             role in Superintendent evaluation, as well 

           8             as in screening/selecting supervisory 

           9             candidates.  One of the most critical is to 

          10             contend with the myriad of local problems 

          11             and issues that arise and to help adjudicate 

          12             grievances brought primarily by parents. 

          13                    Finally, a new district governance in 

          14             monitoring and oversight of policy and 

          15             program implementation in schools. 

          16                    There was also strong consensus that 

          17             members on a district governance body should 

          18             be mandated to undergo training in order to 

          19             ensure informed and effective participation 

          20             in their new position.  History has taught 

          21             us that there must also be dedicated 

          22             funding, preferably from the state, for 

          23             professional development to prevent it from 

          24             becoming merely another unfunded mandate for 

          25             which local dollars quickly evaporate in 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             times of fiscal constraint. 

           3                    Critical to the effectiveness of a 

           4             district governance body is the need for 

           5             professional staffers, independent of the 

           6             Superintendent's control, who can gather 

           7             research, provide necessary information and 

           8             support, as well as help implement decisions 

           9             of the district body. 

          10                    Now I'd like to present to you UPA's 

          11             proposal for district-level governance 

          12             structure and refer you to the diagram, 

          13             which I hope you all have.

          14                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Jan, you may 

          15             need to summarize, because you --

          16                    MS. ATWELL:    I know.  Time factor.

          17                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:     -- have about a 

          18             minute and a half to go.

          19                    MS. ATWELL:    As you can see, we 

          20             propose a District Council, okay.  12 

          21             members with a clear majority of the 

          22             parents, seven parents, as well as three 

          23             community representatives and two high 

          24             school students.  The Superintendent should 

          25             be required to work with this District 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             Council and attend its monthly meetings.  We 

           3             have provided for a professional staff 

           4             person. 

           5                    Now, for the selection of these 

           6             District Councilmembers, we start at the 

           7             school level where the school parents 

           8             association and the school leadership team 

           9             jointly nominate parents as representatives.  

          10             And then a school-wide election would be 

          11             held in which parents vote on a parent 

          12             nominee for their school. 

          13                    When it comes to student nominees, 

          14             their Student Council would nominate 

          15             representatives and a school-wide election 

          16             of students would occur.  And for community 

          17             nominees, we suggest that interested 

          18             community members, representatives from 

          19             CBOs, business community, etcetera, be 

          20             nominated by State Assemblymembers, State 

          21             Senators, City Councilmembers and the 

          22             Community Planning Board. 

          23                    Now, we didn't want to propose yet 

          24             another governance structure into streamline 

          25             bureaucracy, but we do want to promote the 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             idea of dialogue and interaction between 

           3             different levels of governance and all 

           4             stakeholders.  So we also propose that there 

           5             be borough-wide and city-wide conventions 

           6             held.  In case of borough-wide conventions, 

           7             the borough presidents and the parent 

           8             representative on the Panel For Education 

           9             Policy would convene them.  Should be held 

          10             approximately three times a year.  

          11             City-wide, the Chancellor and the Panel For 

          12             Education Policy borough reps would convene 

          13             it.  Held twice a year, including parents, 

          14             educators, students, community, really to 

          15             have a dialogue and to come up with an 

          16             agenda for reform, and then again, repeat 

          17             those conventions to revisit those plans and 

          18             deal with problems that arise and address 

          19             some of the unintended consequences that any 

          20             changes invariably bring. 

          21                    I just want to say in conclusion, 

          22             that our proposal in no way undermines our 

          23             support for existing parent organizations 

          24             and bodies at every level.  We strongly 

          25             support parent associations, President's 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             Council, the Chancellor's Parent Advisory 

           3             Council and feel they are integral.  We just 

           4             feel that this structure will enhance parent 

           5             participation and community participation in 

           6             school governance in New York City.

           7                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you very 

           8             much, Ms. Atwell.  Let me just mention we've 

           9             been joined by several more of our members.  

          10             To my far right, Mr. Robert DeLeon.  To my 

          11             far left, Yanghee Hahn.  Bunny Reddington is 

          12             here from Staten Island. 

          13                    MS. REDDINGTON:   I was here.

          14                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    She's just been 

          15             introduced again.  Thank you very much, Jan 

          16             Atwell, not only for your testimony this 

          17             morning, but for the work that the Education 

          18             Priorities Panel has done over the years and 

          19             the work that the United Parents Association 

          20             has done.  You've represented many groups 

          21             and organizations.  Your ongoing 

          22             communication, information to us continues 

          23             to be very valuable, and we thank you so 

          24             much for being here this morning.

          25                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Jan, we would 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             ordinarily like to have a lot of questions 

           3             and dialogue, but time doesn't allow us to 

           4             do that.  But you will hear more from us, 

           5             I'm sure.

           6                    MS. ATWELL:    Thank you very much 

           7             for hearing us today.

           8                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.  

           9             The Honorable Marty Markowitz, borough 

          10             president of the great Borough of Brooklyn 

          11             where we sit today.  Marty, I was born in 

          12             Brooklyn.  Everyone was born in Brooklyn.

          13                    MR. MARKOWITZ:    When I complete my 

          14             job as borough president, no one will ever 

          15             leave, that's for sure.  Anyway, thank you 

          16             very, very much to each of the members of 

          17             the task force.  Certainly this Chairman, 

          18             Steve Sanders, who I've had the pleasure to 

          19             work with for years, and Audrey Pheffer.  

          20             Thank you for your devotion and dedication 

          21             in giving upon of your time, because I know 

          22             you care as much as we all do about that 

          23             every child receives the best education we 

          24             possibly can.

          25                    As the Mayor and Chancellor move 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             quickly to re-focus and restructure the 

           3             school system and to make it perform at a 

           4             much higher level, I'm delighted that they 

           5             have given the top priority to increasing 

           6             the roles and responsibilities of parents. 

           7                    The consumers of public education, 

           8             the parents, are the ones who speak for 

           9             their children, need a voice.  A real voice.  

          10             Many voices, because I want to be careful 

          11             that we not set up a structure where it's 

          12             one person, meaning, that there is not a 

          13             person living that has all the answers.  And 

          14             a system must be created that creates and 

          15             energizes those that have a concern about 

          16             public education, to have a say in the 

          17             governance of the school system, and 

          18             particularly on the education of their 

          19             children.

          20                    And I know the Chancellor feels that 

          21             way, the Mayor, and all of us in public 

          22             service.  The legislature obviously 

          23             understood this and chose to create this 

          24             task force in preparation for this proposed 

          25             elimination of our community school boards.  




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             While learning to do more with less, we are 

           3             actively seeking to achieve parody among all 

           4             city schools,  so that every parent can send 

           5             their children to a local school, and have 

           6             confidence their children will be able to 

           7             learn in a safe, challenging, nurturing and 

           8             academic environment. 

           9                    Time and time again, wherever we have 

          10             seen this environment and where we see that 

          11             students are succeeding, we see a school 

          12             that is a cohesive community of parents, 

          13             teachers and administrators working 

          14             together, and I might add, that many of our 

          15             existing school boards in New York City have 

          16             done an outstanding job in providing quality 

          17             education to our kids. 

          18                    Given that, I fully support the Mayor 

          19             in his commitment to place a parent 

          20             coordinator in each of the schools.  A new 

          21             and nimble structure is needed to replicate 

          22             full and active parental involvement in all 

          23             city schools.  The structure developed to 

          24             ensure parent involvement to the school must 

          25             serve three purposes: 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2                    First, it must include a proactive 

           3             communication and outreach component 

           4             designed to involve all public school 

           5             parents.  Second, it must create a 

           6             meaningful pathway for capturing parental 

           7             expertise and applying it to the schools, 

           8             and third, the structure must allow parents 

           9             to hold local school officials accountable.  

          10             Superintendents and principals and teachers 

          11             accountable for their school performance and 

          12             the education of their precious children.

          13                    While establishing parent service 

          14             offices is a good start, it will not be 

          15             sufficient to have only 10 centers 

          16             throughout New York City.  And I have to 

          17             say, Chairman, as you know, I was very 

          18             distressed when the Board Of Education left 

          19             Brooklyn and moved to government row, which 

          20             is also known as Chambers Street.  I know 

          21             that's done already.  I had a proposal that 

          22             it should be in East New York where it would  

          23             -- the educational establishment, where ever 

          24             day one of the lowest educational achieving 

          25             communities in New York City.  Regrettably 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             that didn't happen, but I did want to be 

           3             sure that we understand that just 

           4             establishing 10 locations is not sufficient 

           5             in a city this large. 

           6                    The new structure must include a 

           7             direct and accessible avenue for recourse 

           8             for parents who are facing problems with 

           9             their children's schools that are not 

          10             resolvable through their school parental 

          11             coordinator. 

          12                    The most direct way to accomplish 

          13             these goals is to establish local parent 

          14             groups as advisory bodies, which would also 

          15             work actively to increase parental 

          16             involvement in schools where it is lacking. 

          17                    Members can be appointed in a similar 

          18             fashion as community planning board, half by 

          19             borough presidents and perhaps half by city 

          20             Councilmembers representing each community.  

          21             The board should have small administrative 

          22             staffs comprised of reassigned, existing 

          23             Board of Education personnel whose jobs 

          24             would be to effectively communicate with 

          25             parents. 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2                    The parental advisory boards should 

           3             also have the power to recommend three 

           4             candidates to fill principal vacancies.  The 

           5             board also needs to play a role in how money 

           6             is spent in their local schools.  The chairs 

           7             of the parental advisory boards for each 

           8             borough should meet monthly with the borough 

           9             president's appointee to the Panel For 

          10             Educational Policy, thereby bringing 

          11             together the structure that the state 

          12             legislature created. 

          13                    The Chancellor or representative 

          14             would be required to attend these borough 

          15             board meetings to discuss progress, 

          16             educational policy, and how resources are 

          17             being spent and allocated across the 

          18             borough.  These meetings could be held at 

          19             borough president's offices and a nominal 

          20             staff should be assigned, again from 

          21             existing staff, to help ensure that the 

          22             contents of these meetings is effectively 

          23             communicated to the parents. 

          24                    In schools with little parental 

          25             involvement, those without active PTAs where 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             we don't see enough parent volunteers, one 

           3             of the major obligations would to be analyze 

           4             the barriers and increase parental 

           5             involvement in those particular schools.  

           6             Since parents are in the best position to 

           7             effectively recruit other parents as school 

           8             volunteers and to examine barriers to 

           9             parental involvement in their local schools, 

          10             each board would be charged with increasing 

          11             parental participation in the schools within 

          12             their purview.

          13                    The boards would regularly review 

          14             parental participation in schools and each 

          15             school, and establish their own plans for 

          16             increasing involvement, and the boards would 

          17             also evaluate overall school performance and 

          18             evaluate their school superintendents each 

          19             year. 

          20                    The board members would be term 

          21             limited and they should be limited to those 

          22             who have children in public schools.  The 

          23             borough presidents would be held accountable 

          24             to the public for the quality of their 

          25             advisory board appointments, as with local 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             city Councilmembers.  In addition, the 

           3             Chancellor would be directed to hold annual 

           4             education conferences for parents in each 

           5             borough to inform parents about educational 

           6             trends and progress in the system.  Increase 

           7             parental involvement and improve citizen 

           8             access to educational decision makers is 

           9             necessary component of the education 

          10             improvements and the heightened public 

          11             accountability sought by the Mayor.

          12                    To reiterate, there are three 

          13             principals, and I'll wrap it up on this, for 

          14             parental involvement that I believe will 

          15             best accomplish the goals for making every 

          16             school perform well for every student.  A 

          17             proactive communication and outreach 

          18             component designed to involve all public 

          19             school parents.  A meaningful pathway for 

          20             capturing parental expertise and applying it 

          21             in the schools.  A structure for parents to 

          22             hold superintendents accountable for school 

          23             performance. 

          24                    The state legislature made a bold 

          25             decision last year in entrusting the Mayor 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             with total control of our school system, and 

           3             I applaud the Mayor for wanting to take this 

           4             responsibility on.  He has staked his 

           5             Mayoralty on greatly improving how we 

           6             educate our more than one million students, 

           7             and all of us hope that he succeeds, because 

           8             we all succeed when that happens. 

           9                    But everybody needs help, especially 

          10             when you're talking about running 1,200 

          11             schools.  New Yorkers have opinions about 

          12             everything, and when it comes to educating 

          13             our kids, these opinions need to be heard, 

          14             considered and acted on.  Our educational 

          15             system needs to flow from the top down, and 

          16             I'm here to say this morning, from the 

          17             bottom up in order to fully succeed, and the 

          18             only way you're going to encourage real 

          19             parental involvement is by empowering them 

          20             and giving parents real responsibility.  A 

          21             parent's only agenda is making sure that his 

          22             or her child gets the best quality 

          23             education. 

          24                    Whatever you choose to replace 

          25             community school boards, must encourage 




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             neighbor activism, that has made so many of 

           3             our schools successful in New York.  

           4             Harnessing and replicating that activism in 

           5             schools in Brooklyn and beyond is a crucial 

           6             component, we know, of all in New York City, 

           7             especially our school system.  There is no 

           8             reason why this world-class city can't 

           9             provide a world-class education for every 

          10             one of our kids, and I think my proposals 

          11             represent a  solid blueprint to help us 

          12             achieve this goal.  I thank you so very 

          13             much.  Thank you for your dedication.

          14                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Borough 

          15             President, we are indebted to you for your 

          16             decades of public service at the state 

          17             level, now right here in your great Borough 

          18             of Brooklyn, and I did hear  -- I certainly 

          19             took note of what you said in your opening 

          20             remarks about the departure of the education 

          21             establishment from 110 Livingston Street, 

          22             although I don't think it was greeted with 

          23             quite as much dismay as when the Dodgers 

          24             left Ebbets Field.  I know that there was 

          25             still some consternation about that.




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2                    MR. MARKOWITZ:    Steve, I wish I 

           3             was borough president in those days. 

           4                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you so 

           5             much.

           6                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

           7                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Our next 

           8             speaker is Esmeralda Simmons,  executive 

           9             directors of the Center for Law and Social 

          10             Justice.  She'll be the last speaker before 

          11             Chancellor Klein and Deputy Mayor Walcott. 

          12                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Once again, for 

          13             those people who arrived late, with some 

          14             very few exceptions, we are constrained to 

          15             limit people strictly to five minutes.  

          16             Again, this is not to cut you off, but to 

          17             allow for the 100 plus other witnesses who 

          18             have already signed up today.  Good morning.

          19                    MS. SIMMONS:    Good morning.  My 

          20             name is Esmeralda Simmons, and I'm joined 

          21             here by Dr. Sam Anderson.  We are from the 

          22             Center for Law and Social Justice that has 

          23             sponsored the parent advocacy center out of 

          24             Medgar Evers College for the past 17 years, 

          25             and for the last decade, we have been active 




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           2             players from the ground up, I will say, from 

           3             the parents up on the governance issue. 

           4                    Today we prepared remarks, which I 

           5             see you have already, so we are going to 

           6             simply emphasize the issues that are in 

           7             those remarks. 

           8                    First, since nobody else has said it, 

           9             let me remind you that changing the 

          10             community school boards in any way -- I know 

          11             you must do that -- is a voting rights 

          12             issue.  Why is it a voting rights issue?  

          13             Because the school board elections have been 

          14             the base level for political participation 

          15             in this city. 

          16                    It is the only election in which not 

          17             citizens can vote and parents can vote that 

          18             are not otherwise registered, and it has 

          19             allowed for community groups, particularly 

          20             Immigrant groups, who have had no other say 

          21             in city government, to begin to become 

          22             civically involved, since their children 

          23             attend the public schools. 

          24                    The Justice Department of the federal 

          25             government will be reviewing any changes 




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             that you recommend or is passed by the state 

           3             legislature.  And we want to remind you, as 

           4             I'm sure you know so well, that they have in 

           5             the past rejected other recommendations that 

           6             curtailed the voting rights of those persons 

           7             who had such rights as they do now. 

           8                    One last point, though, this is not 

           9             very popular with other folks, it's quite 

          10             popular with the Center for Law and Social 

          11             Justice and other voting rights 

          12             institutions, the cumulative voting process 

          13             in the school board election has also 

          14             allowed for Immigrant groups and language 

          15             minorities to be able to elect candidates of 

          16             their choice.  That also will be 

          17             something -- any changes in that will be 

          18             viewed by the Justice Department. 

          19                    In our testimony we have suggested an 

          20             alternative that hopefully would pass the 

          21             Justice Department's review.  That is the 

          22             creation of representatives -- let me 

          23             underline that -- representatives district 

          24             education councils which basically would be 

          25             voted by the members of the school 




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           2             leadership team and hopefully even voted by 

           3             the public. 

           4                    And these district education councils 

           5             are similar to the other bodies you'll hear 

           6             other public groups mentioning today and 

           7             public officials.  They would basically be 

           8             watchdogs over the education system and act 

           9             not merely as advisors, but as advocates for 

          10             the issues necessary on a local level, and 

          11             we did not anticipate 10 districts.  We're 

          12             looking at something closer to 30, 32 or 

          13             even 51 to make it coterminous with the City 

          14             Council, the smaller, the better. 

          15                    We have over 1,200 schools.  

          16             Certainly 10 district  -- 10 centers would 

          17             not service New York City.  What are we 

          18             asking to be done at these district 

          19             education councils?  We're asking them to 

          20             listen to the parent  -- basically parent 

          21             composed with some members from the 

          22             community, to look at what is happening on 

          23             the educational level and report that to the 

          24             Chancellor, as well as to the community 

          25             members and the PTA.  In other words, 




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           2             examine it.  Have public meetings.  Right 

           3             now, though we tremendously applaud what the 

           4             Mayor said yesterday and we look forward to 

           5             hearing what the Chancellor says today on 

           6             educational initiatives, and we additionally 

           7             have right in our proposal that there should 

           8             be centrality of district-wide parent 

           9             involvement coordinators.  So we are on all 

          10             fours on those issues. 

          11                    We, however, want to see 

          12             representation.  We want to see a real 

          13             voice, and we want to see crystal clear, 

          14             transparent, a governance in regard to 

          15             schools. 

          16                    Finally, none of this would be 

          17             meaningful if students were not trained to 

          18             be leaders in their communities, so we are 

          19             calling for formal creation of student 

          20             councils requiring them -- I don't think 

          21             there's a person up here on this panel that 

          22             wasn't in some way involved in their school 

          23             as a student leader.  We must train them and 

          24             also have them involved in these district 

          25             educational councils so they can work with 




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             the adults and with each other and tell us 

           3             what's really happening in the schools. 

           4             Thank you very much.

           5                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, 

           6             Ms. Simmons, we thank you very much, and Dr. 

           7             Anderson, who is here with you, we are all 

           8             of us very well aware of the good work, hard 

           9             work from the Center for Law and Social 

          10             Justice, and we've had an opportunity to get 

          11             some information during the course of these 

          12             previous hearings, we've seen Dr. Anderson 

          13             on other occasions, and we are always in 

          14             your debt for your hard work and your very 

          15             good advice, and you can be sure that we 

          16             will take very close note of your importunes 

          17             of this task force this morning.  Thank you 

          18             very much, both of you.

          19                    MS. SIMMONS:    Thank you, and good 

          20             luck.

          21                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you.

          22                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    We'd like to 

          23             invite Chancellor Klein, Chancellor of the 

          24             New York City Schools and the Honorable 

          25             Dennis Walcott, Deputy Mayor of The City of 




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             New York to join us. 

           3                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    I made sure 

           4             I took my breath mint knowing I'll be 

           5             sharing a microphone with the Chancellor 

           6             this morning.  Good morning to Chairman 

           7             Sanders and Chairwoman Thomson and to the 

           8             members of the state task force for 

           9             community school district governance reform.  

          10             It's a pleasure to be here this morning. 

          11                    Thank you for the opportunity to 

          12             testify today on the Mayor's vision for the 

          13             replacement of the community school boards.  

          14             As you may be aware, I am a father of four 

          15             children who have either attended or 

          16             currently attend the New York City public 

          17             schools.  In the past, I also served as a 

          18             member of the New York City Board of 

          19             Education, as well as a temporary trustee of 

          20             the school board five when former Chancellor 

          21             Rudy Crew had suspended that particular 

          22             board. 

          23                    Today, though, I am proud to testify 

          24             with Chancellor Joel Klein on the Mayor's 

          25             vision for the replacement of the community 




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             school boards.  Since the Mayor gained 

           3             control of the school system and appointed 

           4             Joel Klein as Chancellor, we have made 

           5             parent participation a priority of our 

           6             Children First reforms.  To build community 

           7             and parent involvement, the Department of 

           8             Education has embarked on a comprehensive 

           9             engagement effort to listen to the ideas of 

          10             parents, teachers, principals, 

          11             superintendents, community-based and civic 

          12             organizations and many other individuals. 

          13                    To date, more than 50,000 parents and 

          14             community members have been engaged in this 

          15             effort.  This outreach has enabled parents 

          16             and the community to have a voice and be a 

          17             crucial part of this ground-breaking school 

          18             reform effort.  The sessions have served as 

          19             forums on what works and what does not work 

          20             in public schools, partnership strategies 

          21             and ways to improve the system. 

          22                    In addition to the meetings that were 

          23             held under the banner of Children First, 

          24             Mayor Bloomberg and his staff have held 

          25             numerous meetings with individual parents 




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             and parent groups.  There has been one 

           3             consistent theme in all of these meetings, 

           4             the need for high performing and respectful 

           5             schools. 

           6                    After listening to the many people 

           7             who have attended these meetings and 

           8             receiving information from the parents, 

           9             school board members, academics and others 

          10             that have testified before this task force, 

          11             we have established several key principals 

          12             which guide our thinking on the replacement 

          13             for community school boards.  Most 

          14             importantly, the replacement body should 

          15             make the school system more accessible to 

          16             parents and guarantee that parents' views on 

          17             their children's education are heard. 

          18                    Thus, our first and most crucial 

          19             recommendation is that we replace the 

          20             community school boards as they exist today, 

          21             composed of members elected by the voters of 

          22             the community school district with what 

          23             we're calling new parent engagement boards, 

          24             consisting entirely of parents and chosen by 

          25             parents of public school children.  




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             Community school boards were conceived with 

           3             the intent of giving a voice to the 

           4             under-represented.  However, they have 

           5             failed to give a voice to those with the 

           6             most at stake.  In the last election of 

           7             community school board members, 

           8             approximately three percent of those 

           9             eligible voted.  This paltry turn out 

          10             demonstrates the lack of connection that 

          11             most people in the community feel to their 

          12             local community school board. 

          13                    The members of the parent engagement 

          14             boards must be true representatives of the 

          15             schools in the district and must be those 

          16             with the most at stake, parents of public 

          17             school children elected by parents.  While 

          18             our focus is on the parents, we recognize 

          19             there is a critical role for community 

          20             groups to play in the school system.  

          21             Community organizations are key partners and 

          22             can provide our children with a critical 

          23             range of services and support both during 

          24             and after the school day.  To that end, and 

          25             as the Mayor stated yesterday, we will soon 




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             announce a comprehensive strategy to partner 

           3             with community organizations that will focus 

           4             on youth development, family, health and 

           5             after-school programs. 

           6                    Every school will be connected to 

           7             these resources of the larger community.  

           8             The second principal is honoring not only 

           9             the requirements of the Voting Rights Act, 

          10             but it's also its spirit.  We're confident 

          11             that our proposal to enhance parent 

          12             involvement will meet this goal. 

          13                    The third principal is taking the 

          14             politics out of the process.  Changing these 

          15             structures to parent only entities is 

          16             critical.  We cannot risk a return to the 

          17             highly politicized situation that has 

          18             existed in many districts for the last 30 

          19             years.  In the past, these boards became 

          20             mired in the politics of decisions ranging 

          21             from awarding contracts for repairs, to 

          22             selecting principals, to hiring 

          23             paraprofessionals and school aides. 

          24                    I envision that these new boards, 

          25             because of their parent only design, can 




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           2             stay above the political fray and focus on 

           3             the challenge of educating our children. 

           4                    The fourth principal concerns the 

           5             role of parent engagement boards.  These 

           6             boards should have real influence not over 

           7             the type of issues that lead to the problems 

           8             of the community school boards.  This means 

           9             serving as a forum to hear the concerns of 

          10             parents, as a body to hear and give input 

          11             into the plans and performance of the 

          12             department, and as a resource to 

          13             superintendents and to the Chancellor. 

          14                    There needs to be a conceptual 

          15             re-focus from how those boards have 

          16             conducted business in the past.  We need to 

          17             engage parents in the work of improving 

          18             their children's education. 

          19                    The fifth principal is a coherence 

          20             between the schools and the district level 

          21             boards.  We should create a bottom up parent 

          22             structure by aligning the activities of the 

          23             parent engagement board with the current 

          24             school leadership teams.  As part of the 

          25             department's efforts to increase parent 




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             participation in schools, we will provide 

           3             effective training for the parent members on 

           4             the SLTs, and ensure that all aspects of the 

           5             SLTs are parent friendly. 

           6                    Since the Parent Association, the PA 

           7             president is an automatic member of the SLT, 

           8             and the PA elects the other parent members, 

           9             the parent engagement boards will be 

          10             compromised of parent leaders  in the 

          11             district school. 

          12                    In sum, these principals will allow 

          13             parents to have a more meaningful role in 

          14             their children's education.  Chancellor 

          15             Klein will now speak in greater detail to 

          16             the various reforms we're instituting to 

          17             make this possible.  Thank you and I look 

          18             forward to hearing from you.  Chancellor.

          19                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Thank you.  

          20             Thank you, Chairman Sanders, thank you 

          21             Chairwoman Thomson, and thank you members of 

          22             the committee for the opportunity to be here 

          23             today and to testify. 

          24                    I think I would like to just put a 

          25             little context on the discussion, because 




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           2             obviously what you're doing is so critical, 

           3             but also a lot of what the Mayor has 

           4             announced I think is important background 

           5             context.  So first I'd like to reiterate a 

           6             few points, elaborate, and then discuss with 

           7             you some of the thoughts on the boards that 

           8             Dennis proposed. 

           9                    It goes without saying that parents 

          10             and their children, of course, are the most 

          11             important stakeholders in our public school 

          12             system.  Even though that goes without 

          13             saying, sometimes we forget it.  So I wanted 

          14             to reiterate it, and if there's one thing 

          15             that's come across in the thousands of 

          16             parents meetings, parents that I meet 

          17             through the Children First initiative, is 

          18             that we need to do a much better job 

          19             providing parents with multiple 

          20             opportunities to communicate their views to 

          21             decision makers in our schools at all 

          22             levels. 

          23                    Therefore, in order to more 

          24             effectively engage parents and to ensure 

          25             that we respond to their concerns at the 




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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             local level, I will establish, as the Mayor 

           3             announced yesterday, a parent coordinator 

           4             position in each school.  This person will 

           5             be chosen by the principal and trained, 

           6             underscore trained, to play a key role in 

           7             listening and responding  --

           8                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Excuse me.  

           9             Before the Chancellor continues, this is not 

          10             a rally or a sporting event, so I know you 

          11             all have strong views, but please keep them 

          12             to yourself and let every witness say what 

          13             they need to say.  Thank you.

          14                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Parent 

          15             coordinator will be chosen by the principal 

          16             and trained to play a key role in listening 

          17             and responding to parent concerns.  This 

          18             significant addition of trained staff in the 

          19             schools will serve as the first point of 

          20             entry for parents to become more involved in 

          21             their children's education. 

          22                    It is also the most significant point 

          23             of contact for parents.  Parents, and again, 

          24             this has been told to me throughout meeting 

          25             after meeting, they're interested in what is 




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           2             going on principally in their children's 

           3             school.  And as I have frequently said, and 

           4             we all know from our personal experiences, 

           5             parents send their children to a school, not 

           6             to a school district or a school system, but 

           7             there are times when these issues are not or 

           8             cannot be worked out at the school level.  

           9             We recognize that, and it's important 

          10             recognition. 

          11                    So we're also including a parent 

          12             support office in each of the 10 learning 

          13             support centers that will be established 

          14             across the city.  Each support office will 

          15             be staffed by several support officers, 

          16             full-time staff, also trained, who will 

          17             supplement the engagement and response 

          18             functions that our school-based parent 

          19             coordinators will perform. 

          20                    Let me be clear about this, parents 

          21             can go to any of these 10 offices, if they 

          22             have time during lunch, before work, 

          23             whatever, not just at the one closest to 

          24             their child's school, and in order to make 

          25             them as accessible to parents as possible, 




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           2             these offices will be kept open two evenings 

           3             a week and on weekends, in addition to the 

           4             regular business hours. 

           5                    Also, in addition, to bring greater 

           6             clarity and coherence to the ways in which 

           7             we engage parents in our schools and to 

           8             offer parents concrete ways to learn more 

           9             about what is going on with respect to the 

          10             education of their children, we will create 

          11             a parent academy. 

          12                    Through this academy, parent 

          13             coordinators will provide school-based 

          14             workshops to parents on everything from 

          15             understanding curriculum, to forging the 

          16             school-home connection and strengthening 

          17             parent leadership and participation, 

          18             including the key organizations, like the 

          19             Parent Associations and School Leadership 

          20             Teams.  Akin to the leadership academy for 

          21             principals that was announced in December of 

          22             last year, the parent academy will be a 

          23             full-service resource center with support 

          24             and training for parent coordinators at the 

          25             school and parent support offices at the 




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           2             learning support centers, and these 

           3             functions will be integrated under Diana 

           4             Lamb, the Deputy Chancellor for Teaching and 

           5             Learning, to again, integrate parents into 

           6             the instructional equation. 

           7                    Now, this reference to our leadership 

           8             academy provides a good opportunity to 

           9             transition to another key issue for parents.  

          10             In the past days and weeks I have made clear 

          11             that developing school leadership is a 

          12             centerpiece of our Children First 

          13             initiative.  A great school leader -- and I 

          14             want to underscore this -- a great school 

          15             leader understands that parents are key 

          16             partners in the education of their children, 

          17             both in terms of parental involvement in 

          18             their children's education and in terms of 

          19             the parent's responsibility to their 

          20             children. 

          21                    Parents must ensure that their 

          22             children are education focused and education 

          23             ready.  That they get to school on time.  

          24             That they behave in school and that they do 

          25             their homework.  To that end, we will hold 




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           2             principals and schools accountable for 

           3             ensuring parents do indeed feel like they 

           4             are true partners. 

           5                    Parent engagement standards will be 

           6             part of each principal's performance review.  

           7             Criteria will include the effectiveness of 

           8             each success in successfully engaging 

           9             parents, keeping them informed, and 

          10             addressing their concerns. 

          11                    For example, as Mayor Bloomberg 

          12             emphasized yesterday, principals will be 

          13             expected to creat and demonstrate a 

          14             parent-welcoming school culture, something 

          15             that is all too frequently now missing.  

          16             This will include a set of clear 

          17             expectations for all staff on showing 

          18             consistent courtesy, responsiveness, 

          19             sensitivity and respect, respect toward 

          20             parents.  And parents will be given a 

          21             meaningful opportunity to provide input into 

          22             the evaluation of principal performance. 

          23                    Now it's against this back trap that 

          24             I'd like to turn to the issues that Dennis 

          25             and this task force are heavily focused on, 




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           2             growing out of last June's governance reform 

           3             legislation.  I want to first commend this 

           4             task force for its fine work and emphasize 

           5             that we look forward to working with you in 

           6             devising and effectively implementing your 

           7             important proposal. 

           8                    In that regard, specifically, the 

           9             replacement for community school boards that 

          10             we're outlining today, parent engagement 

          11             boards, would play an important role in 

          12             shaping various aspects of the educational 

          13             debate, including budget, educational policy 

          14             and zoning.  In fact, I believe this 

          15             proposal will provide more parents with 

          16             better and more entry points and a stronger 

          17             voice on behalf of their children's 

          18             education. 

          19                    These parent engagement boards should 

          20             be made up of parents selected from the 

          21             different schools within their districts.  

          22             And in our view, they should have several 

          23             functions in common with the current 

          24             community school boards, as well as some new 

          25             functions. 




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           2                    Members of the parent engagement 

           3             board will meet regularly with the regional 

           4             superintendents who will be responsible for 

           5             instructional oversight of the school's in 

           6             their district, to review the school's 

           7             progress.  In addition, these parent 

           8             engagement boards should have input into the 

           9             evaluation of regional superintendents and 

          10             their local instructional supervisors.  This 

          11             is a critical means of building a system 

          12             that is responsive to parents by having them 

          13             play an important role in evaluating our key 

          14             instructional personnel. 

          15                    Furthermore, I'd like these boards to 

          16             be another avenue for parents with concerns.  

          17             In effect, the boards would have an 

          18             ombudsperson function.  I know this is an 

          19             important aspect of the current community 

          20             school boards, and parent engagement boards 

          21             should be of even greater assistance to 

          22             parents, in that they will all be parents 

          23             themselves.  Indeed, they should monitor and 

          24             advise as to how our parent initiatives at 

          25             the schools and in the Parent Support 




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           2             Offices is working.  In other words, they 

           3             can be an independent check on what we're 

           4             doing to create feedback, because I believe 

           5             that putting system in place is important, 

           6             but more critically is to make them work, 

           7             and we need people to go out and test and 

           8             determine that. 

           9                    I also envision that the boards will 

          10             continue to comment on capital and operating 

          11             budget priorities for the school system in 

          12             general and for specific schools in the 

          13             district.  The members will review and 

          14             comment on their comprehensive educational 

          15             plan, and those comments will be included in 

          16             the final plan. 

          17                    In addition, parent engagement boards 

          18             will participate in the approval of zoning 

          19             lines for elementary schools in the 

          20             district.  This has important implications 

          21             and will require school managers to work 

          22             closely with the parent engagement board to 

          23             implement changes. 

          24                    These are the key principals that I 

          25             believe should guide our thinking on the 




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           2             best plan for replacing community school 

           3             boards.  I believe this approach will yield 

           4             great benefits for the children in our 

           5             schools, because it acknowledges the 

           6             critical role that parents play in their 

           7             children's education. 

           8                    In addition, as Deputy Mayor Walcott 

           9             emphasized, it eliminates politics and 

          10             patronage from the process, and allows this 

          11             new entity to function purely in the 

          12             interest of educating public school 

          13             students. 

          14                    Too often in the past, we have 

          15             allowed these other diversions to let us put 

          16             others first, instead of children first.  

          17             Let me conclude by reiterating that I look 

          18             forward to working with this task force as 

          19             you finalize your proposal over the next 

          20             month.  As part of our Children First 

          21             initiative, I have met, as I said, literally 

          22             with thousands of parents throughout this 

          23             city, and will continue to meet with them, 

          24             including at a Town Hall meeting in lower 

          25             Manhattan this evening. 




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           2                    I should point out to Borough 

           3             President Markowitz, we've had several in 

           4             Brooklyn as well.  We are a full-service 

           5             organization here.  I have learned a great 

           6             deal from these meetings and know  -- this 

           7             is difficult to say -- but I know that we at 

           8             the Department of Education at every level 

           9             can and must do a better job in listening to 

          10             parents, responding to their concerns and 

          11             engaging them in the education of their 

          12             children. 

          13                    Yesterday, the Mayor said he would 

          14             hold us accountable on that score.  I am 

          15             eager to accept his challenge.  Thank you 

          16             very much.

          17                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you very 

          18             much, Chancellor Klein and Deputy Mayor 

          19             Walcott.  Let me just say, before I look for 

          20             questions, I'm sure there will be, that in a 

          21             way I'm almost amazed that, Chancellor 

          22             Klein, that you have been Chancellor for 

          23             only five months.  It seems like it has 

          24             already been a long, long time, and Deputy 

          25             Mayor Walcott, though an old friend in many 




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           2             endeavors for and in New York City, that you 

           3             have only been Deputy Mayor now for a year 

           4             also to me sort of boggles the mind.  There 

           5             is so much that has already been done and 

           6             said and more to do, but I think at the 

           7             outset we all want to thank you very much 

           8             for your very hard efforts. 

           9                    We view our role as that working as 

          10             best we can in partnership with the 

          11             administration, and I think we all 

          12             appreciate, Chancellor Klein, your 

          13             invitation to continue to work with this 

          14             task force over the course of certainly at 

          15             least the next four weeks, as we try to, as 

          16             we will, fashion and ultimately submit our 

          17             recommendations to the legislature and the 

          18             Governor. 

          19                    As we all know, there are things that 

          20             the Chancellor and the Mayor can and should 

          21             do administratively and unilaterally.  Those 

          22             powers were granted to the Chancellor and 

          23             the Mayor in The Governance Law.  There are 

          24             other aspects of this mid level governance 

          25             effort that requires us to work together so 




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           2             that we can pass the laws that are needed to 

           3             make this system the kind of system that 

           4             everybody in this room wants to have, which 

           5             is the finest public education system, with 

           6             the maximum amount of parental and community 

           7             engagement possible. 

           8                    So I just want to say that we 

           9             appreciate the spirit of your comments and 

          10             the hard work you have already provided.    

          11                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    I just 

          12             wanted to say, that the Mayor also wanted me 

          13             to say directly to you and to the members of 

          14             the task force, we appreciate your 

          15             leadership as well, and we look forward to 

          16             working with you over the next several 

          17             months and cooperating with you, the 

          18             Assembly and the State Senate as we move 

          19             forward around not just the replacement of 

          20             the community school boards, but really just 

          21             dealing with the overall issue of improving 

          22             education in our City.  So we thank you for 

          23             your leadership as well.

          24                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you.  

          25             Before I turn to Terri Thomson, who I think 




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           2             has the first question or comment, I will be 

           3             looking -- we will get to everybody -- let 

           4             me just indicate that Assemblyman Peter 

           5             Rivera has joined us, and we're very 

           6             grateful for that.  Ms. Thomson.

           7                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    I think our 

           8             first question is from Virginia Kee.

           9                    MS. KEE:   Thank you on behalf of 

          10             your good work for these people of The City 

          11             of New York, our Deputy Mayor, and also the 

          12             Chancellor.  My question has to do with 

          13             parent coordinator.  Do you visualize a 

          14             person who is a member of staff, a staff 

          15             member, for example, a teacher, or do you 

          16             see this parent coordinator as a parent?  

          17             Now, I have been a parent liaison for my 

          18             school as a role as a teacher, but the 

          19             language facility, depending on where the 

          20             school is located, is very important.  The 

          21             parent coordinator cannot coordinate, cannot 

          22             communicate, cannot do anything with a 

          23             parent, unless this person speaks the 

          24             parent's language, and that's very 

          25             important.




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           2                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Again, I'll ask 

           3             the audience to please try to restrain 

           4             yourself.  Thank you very much.

           5                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    We're much more 

           6             amenable to applause.  I'll be glad to 

           7             answer that, Ms. Kee.  I totally agree with 

           8             you, obviously, and we, in staffing these 

           9             centers, we'll take the issues of language 

          10             into account.  And I think you will see a 

          11             variety of people within the team, both in 

          12             terms of language and in terms of skills and 

          13             background, and a key part of this parental 

          14             academy will be, once again, to knit those 

          15             people into a team. 

          16                    I'm a very big believer that in 

          17             education, as in life, success comes when 

          18             you can make sure the whole is greater than 

          19             the sum of its parts.

          20                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Brown.

          21                    MS. BROWN:   Again, going back to 

          22             the selection of the parent coordinator, 

          23             often times when parents have issues in 

          24             school, they feel as though it's the 

          25             leadership of the building that's not being 




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           2             responsive.  And if in fact the role of this 

           3             parent coordinator is to act as some sort of 

           4             ombudsperson for the parent group, would it 

           5             not be a conflict or perceived as a 

           6             conflict, if the principal is solely 

           7             selecting this person to engage parents, to 

           8             make parents or to help create more 

           9             meaningful experiences in schools for 

          10             parents, and also the role of this parent 

          11             coordinator in these schools, is it going to 

          12             be set up as some sort of network that these 

          13             parent coordinators are also looking at the 

          14             broader aspect of the community?  Is there 

          15             going to be some sort of relationship with 

          16             these parent coordinators and what's being 

          17             proposed as these 10 regional districts?

          18                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    The answers are 

          19             the following.  First let me say, I 

          20             respectfully disagree that it's a conflict.  

          21             In fact, I think if you think about the 

          22             multilayer structures, Ms. Brown, first of 

          23             all, we shouldn't assume that the function 

          24             at the school  -- the first thing you want 

          25             to do is build a team that works together.  




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           2             The principal, as I said, will be held 

           3             accountable for parental engagement, and if 

           4             that doesn't work, then we'll deal with 

           5             that, but I think it's very important within 

           6             the school to have people on the same page, 

           7             and this is a multi-part function.  If we 

           8             start out with an assumption that it is a 

           9             conflict between the parents and the school, 

          10             I think we've already lost half the 

          11             discussion. 

          12                    First point ought to be that we're on 

          13             the same page.  Second point ought to be 

          14             that if it doesn't get worked out at the 

          15             school, there are 10 of these parent centers 

          16             which are independent of the school and will 

          17             report in to the Deputy Chancellor Diana 

          18             Lamb. So they'll be ample opportunity for 

          19             review.  We're not polyannish about the fact 

          20             that there aren't real conflicts. 

          21                    Third, there will be forms of 

          22             communication and working together from the 

          23             school into the parent offices, and indeed, 

          24             into the parent academy.  So I think if we 

          25             start in a way that looks not toward an 




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           2             issue of conflict, but toward an issue of 

           3             everybody getting on the same page and make 

           4             sure there are conflict resolution 

           5             mechanisms outside the school, I think we'll 

           6             achieve what we need.

           7                    MS. BROWN:    But going back to that 

           8             point, we've already made an acknowledgment 

           9             that something is not working by all of the 

          10             changes that we're reading about, that we're 

          11             hearing about, and part of the reason why 

          12             you're here right now.  So we have already 

          13             acknowledged that there's something wrong 

          14             and there's something that needs to be 

          15             fixed. 

          16                    Again, we had the C-30 process that 

          17             engaged -- that brought a community in terms 

          18             of the selection of principals and assistant 

          19             principals, and again, that process has been 

          20             modified.  Just thinking about putting it 

          21             solely into school leadership teams, and 

          22             again, we're missing the broader 

          23             representation of parents within that school 

          24             or within that community.  While we're 

          25             talking about making changes, for once I'd 




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           2             like to see us move in the right direction.  

           3             I mean, when you think about parental 

           4             involvement, again, it should not be done in 

           5             isolation.  It encompasses every aspect of a 

           6             school and a community.

           7                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Shh.  Quiet.  

           8             We're going to move ahead in an orderly 

           9             fashion.  Mr. Levin.

          10                    MR. LEVIN:   Deputy Mayor Walcott 

          11             and Chancellor Klein, I wonder if based on 

          12             testimony we already heard this morning, if 

          13             you can comment on why you haven't proposed 

          14             the parent and community engagement board 

          15             that would  -- that would respond to the 

          16             notion that we're partly educating our 

          17             students for civic participation and would 

          18             also engage the community, including local 

          19             businesses that support our school support, 

          20             and secondly, what about the notion of the 

          21             requirement that the Justice Department, 

          22             with which you're quite familiar, will have 

          23             to engage on the voting aspect of any 

          24             proposal.  Shouldn't we continue to 

          25             enfranchise all parts of the community?




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           2                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    I think 

           3             there's a two part answer to your question.  

           4             One, that there should be parental 

           5             involvement at the local level and that it 

           6             should be an all parent body to be on that 

           7             local engagement board, but also, what the 

           8             Mayor talked about yesterday, and what the 

           9             Chancellor elaborated on today, is that the 

          10             community and businesses will have other in 

          11             roads for involvement as well, and that can 

          12             be integrated with the parent engagement 

          13             boards, so there's a multi-step process for 

          14             both the local community-based 

          15             organizations, as well as local businesses 

          16             and other businesses to be engaged in the 

          17             school, but in addition to those aspects, I 

          18             think one of the things that we'll be doing 

          19             through the Chancellor's office is 

          20             monitoring local business involvement, as 

          21             well as corporate involvement through a 

          22             variety of his staffing supports as well.  

          23             So we see various points of entry for 

          24             business, both local businesses as well as 

          25             corporations who have an idea, an engagement 




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           2             area to be involved in with the local 

           3             schools and with the Voting Rights Act.

           4                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Friedman.

           5                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    I think the 

           6             Chancellor wanted to say something.

           7                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    That's all 

           8             right.  I should say two quick things.  

           9             First of all, the fear or the concern is 

          10             caught in the following.  We want to 

          11             encourage parental involvement.  At the same 

          12             time we want to make sure it's involvement 

          13             as well as civic involvement that is 

          14             constructive.  We don't want to go back to 

          15             the kind of political paralysis that often 

          16             occurred.  The C-30 process, which Ms. Brown 

          17             referred to, you might appreciate.  We had 

          18             100s and 100s of people for several years 

          19             that we couldn't fill positions because of 

          20             paralysis of all these discordant voices.  

          21             We need some accountability, even as we need 

          22             to have all the requisite input.  So I think 

          23             that was the focus. 

          24                    On the issue of the Voting Rights 

          25             Act, I am confident that a parent-elected 




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           2             representational body would not be dilutive 

           3             under the Voting Rights Act and would pass 

           4             muster under Section 5.

           5                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Friedman.

           6                    MR. FRIEDMAN:   Good morning, 

           7             Chancellor Klein, Deputy Mayor Walcott.  

           8             Thank you for testifying this morning.  I 

           9             just need a clarification.  I have a short 

          10             question.  The clarification would be on the 

          11             parent engagement boards.  How many would 

          12             there be?  Would they run according to 

          13             current school districts or according to the 

          14             new 10 districts?  That's first.

          15                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    Current 32.

          16                    MR. FRIEDMAN:    The second question 

          17             goes to the parent academy.  I'm not sure 

          18             whether the name is really accurate.  Is my 

          19             understanding clear that the parent academy 

          20             is for the parent coordinators and 

          21             non-parents and the parent coordinators, 

          22             even these support centers, what's being 

          23             done for the parents themselves as far as 

          24             training?  As we've gone around the city and 

          25             we've discussed the issue of school 




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           2             leadership teams and how effective they've 

           3             been, we've consistently heard that many 

           4             teams are not effective because principals 

           5             are still dictating the agenda and parents 

           6             are really not getting a true voice on these 

           7             teams. 

           8                    We've also heard that one of the 

           9             major problems with school leadership teams 

          10             is the lack of training of these teams.  Are 

          11             these parent academies parent academies, or 

          12             for administrators?

          13                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    First of all, 

          14             you're correct about both your points.  

          15             School leadership teams run the gamut from 

          16             those that function very, very well to those 

          17             that don't function period.  And we have a 

          18             lot of work to do.  We have been working 

          19             with the Urban League and several other 

          20             partners in training programs with that 

          21             respect.  We will as well try to devise 

          22             training programs through the parent 

          23             academies in that regard. 

          24                    On the other point, I want to make 

          25             clear, because I will enforce this, that 




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           2             principals who are not interested in working 

           3             with school leadership teams, are principals 

           4             that are going to be evaluated and we're 

           5             going to get input from the teams, the 

           6             parents and so forth as part of our 

           7             evaluative process, and in fact, if 

           8             principals don't think this is an important 

           9             part of what they need to do, they will be 

          10             sent a clear and very precise message in 

          11             that regard.

          12                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Clayton.

          13                    MR. CLAYTON:   Hello, Chancellor 

          14             Klein, Dennis Walcott.  The United Parents 

          15             Association would have a problem with  -- 

          16             you have here that these parent engagement 

          17             boards will play an important role in 

          18             shaping various aspects of the educational 

          19             debate, including the budget, the policy and 

          20             zoning.  Important role, that's what would 

          21             have to be more drawn out in our point of 

          22             view, the important role, because as you 

          23             know, in '96, when the school governance 

          24             gave the Chancellor sweeping powers over the 

          25             districts and superintendents, at the same 




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           2             time it seemed like the community school 

           3             boards, their authority started diminishing, 

           4             to today, they're virtually just sitting 

           5             ducks up there.  So it's the hope that this 

           6             task force will try to strengthen any new 

           7             alternative that is put in its place.  That 

           8             it will not just be window dressing.  And so 

           9             there is where they would play an important 

          10             role still kind of frightens us.  That will 

          11             have to be defined, because to me, that 

          12             still sounds like window dressing.  That 

          13             they're just advisory.

          14                    So, I mean, can you elaborate to what 

          15             you mean by they would play an important 

          16             role?

          17                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    I think our 

          18             bottom line is that we look forward to 

          19             working with the task force in defining the 

          20             role further.  We want to really sit down 

          21             with the members of the task force, and as 

          22             we've done in the past, have ongoing 

          23             discussions as far as really becoming more 

          24             specific with the role of the parent 

          25             engagement board and other aspects of our 




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           2             plan, and really incorporate the ideas that 

           3             have been proposed to you by other people 

           4             who have been testifying before the task 

           5             force as well.  So that was the language in 

           6             that context more than anything else.

           7                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Pheffer.

           8                    MS. PHEFFER:   Thank you, and good 

           9             morning.  Just some clarification.  The 

          10             parent engagement board you said are going 

          11             to be 32 boards under the district lines, 

          12             but the new plan had 12 schools responsible, 

          13             so I just don't understand.  If you can 

          14             explain to me the parent engagement board is 

          15             represented by schools within that district, 

          16             but yet there's a different layer of the 12 

          17             schools that are different.

          18                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Every district 

          19             will have a regional superintendent, so 

          20             whatever the district is.

          21                    MS. PHEFFER:    School district as 

          22             it exists now?

          23                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Yes.  So they 

          24             will all have a direct point of linear 

          25             contact in direct order.  It would just be 




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           2             one person instead of three people perhaps 

           3             over three districts, it will be one person 

           4             over three districts, and these boards 

           5             would, as I said, would interface with the 

           6             regional superintendent.

           7                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    Let me use 

           8             this point just to clarify something.  The 

           9             district lines as they exist right now will 

          10             be the district lines in our really 

          11             definition as well.  We are not proposing 

          12             the changing of any of the district lines.  

          13             By law, those are the lines where the 

          14             schools will be located.  We're reforming 

          15             the management structure, as Joel indicated, 

          16             to have the regional superintendent, and if 

          17             anything, really breaking down to I think 

          18             more finite control in dealing with the 

          19             supervision within a district. 

          20                    So the allocation of staff will be 

          21             concentrating on 10 to 12 schools within a 

          22             particular district itself, but what we're 

          23             proposing for the parent engagement boards 

          24             is the parent engagement boards would be 

          25             linked to the existing districts as they 




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           2             exist right now.

           3                    MS. PHEFFER:    Can I just have 

           4             another part of that question?

           5                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Quick follow up.

           6                    MS. PHEFFER:    The other thing is 

           7             we've heard lots of comments like about 

           8             district 75.  Where do they fit in this 

           9             plan?

          10                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    That's an 

          11             important point.  I think as you heard the 

          12             Mayor yesterday, he's given us 60 days to 

          13             come up with a plan on that and we will have 

          14             that.  I've been very clear that district 75 

          15             as a district will remain, and we will have 

          16             other proposals with respect to the 

          17             important issue about children with special 

          18             needs.  And it would be in a comprehensive 

          19             set of issues.  What the Mayor said 

          20             yesterday, Ms. Pheffer, was that there are 

          21             enormously complicated, labyrinthine legal 

          22             requirements here which we need to work 

          23             through, as well as some of the educational 

          24             issues and that's why it's going to take 

          25             some additional time.




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           2                    MS. PHEFFER:    Thank you.

           3                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:     Assemblyman 

           4             Rivera.

           5                    MR. RIVERA:    Good morning.  You 

           6             may have answered the question, but I'd like 

           7             to restate the question so that I have a 

           8             clearer understanding.  One of the problems 

           9             that we have with the current system as it 

          10             stands right now is that there's no clear 

          11             way of measuring the success or failure of 

          12             the current system, whether it's a school 

          13             leadership team or whatever.  And at least 

          14             to me, there's no clear way. 

          15                    If we're going to set up a system, 

          16             and all we hear by the way is anecdotal 

          17             evidence that in one school it succeeds and 

          18             in one school it fails, that the parents in 

          19             one school think it's the best thing 

          20             possibly or parents in another district or 

          21             another school think it's terrible.  I guess 

          22             what you're saying here is that you will 

          23             create a clear way of measuring the 

          24             performance, the success, the ability to 

          25             judge whether parents are being involved and 




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           2             to what extent they're being involved in one 

           3             area versus another; am I correct in 

           4             assuming that?

           5                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    That's correct.

           6                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Arce-Bello.

           7                    MS. ARCE-BELLO:    Good morning.  

           8             What, if any, will be the relationship 

           9             between the proposed parent engagement 

          10             boards and the Educational Policy Panel?

          11                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Once again, I 

          12             think they will be invited to attend those 

          13             meetings.  There will probably be joint 

          14             meetings set up so that we have  -- attend 

          15             Panel Policy meetings, as well as have joint 

          16             meeting between the two.  This is something 

          17             we need obviously to develop and elaborate 

          18             with the panel based in part on what comes 

          19             out of the work of this committee.  We don't 

          20             want to get ahead of this committee at this 

          21             point.

          22                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    Also, if I 

          23             may, one of the comments the Mayor made 

          24             yesterday in his testimony is we're really 

          25             starting from a blank slate.  I think 




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           2             there's great opportunities to talk about 

           3             the blending between the Policy Panel and 

           4             the parent engagement board, and how we put 

           5             a new structure together that really 

           6             maximizes participation and engagement, 

           7             learning from people.  Sharing ideas and 

           8             information.  So we're, again, as the 

           9             Chancellor indicated, looking forward to 

          10             hearing the feedback from not just the task 

          11             force, but the people who are testifying 

          12             before the task force, because there's 

          13             opportunity to have input in developing what 

          14             goes on the slate right now, and I think 

          15             ideas as far as interaction between the two 

          16             to me allows for us to have a better system.

          17                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    One thing in 

          18             that regard that might be helpful, just to 

          19             follow up, we have had now I think it's 

          20             eight or nine community meetings throughout 

          21             the city.  In each and every one of those 

          22             we've gotten anywhere from three, four, 500 

          23             parents, and the most recent one in Queens, 

          24             1,000 plus parents who come out to these 

          25             meetings.  In every one of those, we have 




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           2             broken those up into small groups of 15, 20, 

           3             25 parents, with a facilitator -- all of 

           4             this done by the way with private money -- 

           5             who is taken lengthy comments, all of which 

           6             we have about parental concerns, and one of 

           7             the things that is very important about that 

           8             is the wide berth and reach of this process.  

           9             And we would be very happy to share all that 

          10             information with this task force and it 

          11             might prove helpful too.

          12                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    That would be 

          13             very helpful.  Mr. DeLeon.

          14                    MR. DeLEON:   One of the things that 

          15             we've heard throughout the city from parents 

          16             is  -- one of the questions that they ask is 

          17             who has the juice?  There is no juice in any 

          18             of the structures.  New York definition of 

          19             juice is no power to enforce on the parent 

          20             level whatever it is the issue is.  The 

          21             structures that are being proposed by the 

          22             City appear to be advisory in nature, giving 

          23             the ability for the people to speak there 

          24             mind, but no ability for them to enforce 

          25             their thoughts or engage in the kind of 




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           2             debate that you see in legislative bodies 

           3             where there is real power and real exchange 

           4             and real trading off of whatever the City 

           5             will ultimately be.  What it appears that we 

           6             have heard is what is being created is a 

           7             labyrinth of educational bureaucracy to 

           8             engage people in that little game of 

           9             circles.  Where's the juice?

          10                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    In all 

          11             honesty, I think there's juice all over the 

          12             place.  I think one of the points of juice 

          13             is the juice dealing with the voters itself.

          14                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Please.  Please.

          15                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    The Mayor 

          16             has been very clear from the beginning that 

          17             you will be holding him accountable as far 

          18             as the actions of what takes place in the 

          19             public schools.  So the voters have the 

          20             juice.  And the parents are part of that 

          21             voting mechanism that will hold the Mayor 

          22             accountable.  But more importantly, if 

          23             anything, I think we're trying to minimize 

          24             the bureaucracy and address a way, in a very 

          25             simplified fashion, to have parents have 




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           2             input more importantly at the local school.  

           3             If not at the local school, within their 

           4             district.  If not at their district, with 

           5             the Education Policy Panel.  I mean, I've 

           6             seen parents at the Policy Panel Meetings  

           7             who have gotten up and have challenged the 

           8             Chancellor directly around issues that are 

           9             taking place, not just in their district, 

          10             but at their local school, and the 

          11             Chancellor and his staff reacting to that.  

          12             So that's different points of juice right 

          13             there.

          14                    You have juice through the state 

          15             legislature with the Assembly under the 

          16             leadership of Steve Sanders, on the Assembly 

          17             side in the Education Committee.  Frank 

          18             Padavan, on the State Senate side, as far as 

          19             making sure that they hold us accountable 

          20             for the actions of what's taking place 

          21             within the system. 

          22                    You have juice at City Council level 

          23             where the Education Committee at the City 

          24             Council talking about the issues.  There are 

          25             various aspects and points of engagement on 




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           2             the part of the parents, not just as voters, 

           3             but also in the realm of the legislative 

           4             bodies that have created to hold us 

           5             accountable for our actions, and then the 

           6             final point of juice I think is the parents 

           7             directly in calling us.  I mean, we hear 

           8             through the Chancellor's office, through 

           9             City Hall, parents on the regular basis 

          10             talking about thier lack of action of what's 

          11             not taking place in the school, and 

          12             expecting a response to this new governance 

          13             system. 

          14                    So I think the system that we're 

          15             proposing around the parent engagement 

          16             boards gives another aspect for juice to 

          17             really be put directly into the system.  To 

          18             have bodies there working both in the 

          19             district, but also having the parent 

          20             coordinators in the school be that person to 

          21             make sure there's accountability, and I 

          22             think the final point of juice is in the 

          23             results that will show after the end of this 

          24             period of time.  The making sure we change 

          25             around our system.




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           2                    MR. DeLEON:    Can I respond?

           3                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Quick follow up.

           4                    MR. DeLEON:    That's fine.  Every 

           5             four years, being holding the Mayor 

           6             accountable -- and I'm repeating what I 

           7             heard over the last few months that we've 

           8             been holding these hearings  -- holding the 

           9             structures accountable is fine.  What the 

          10             parents want is to hold the principal 

          11             responsible, to hold the teachers 

          12             responsible, for them to be able to get an 

          13             education for their children.  The 

          14             legislature  -- well, I made my point.

          15                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Let me respond 

          16             to your point, because I've really been 

          17             engaged in the point you make.  I think that 

          18             we have to separate out the following:  When 

          19             you say the parents want to hold the 

          20             principals responsible, this happens to be 

          21             my day job, and I get a lot of communication 

          22             from parents, and I can tell you, school 

          23             after school, you get the following 

          24             communication:  Mr. X is the greatest 

          25             principal in the world, and it's signed by 




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           2             11 parents and then I get Mr. X is the worst 

           3             principal in the world signed by 15 parents, 

           4             and then 20 others have no interest in the 

           5             process. 

           6                    Now what I am so afraid of is a 

           7             system of gridlock, and that's what we need 

           8             to avoid.  Systems of accountability don't 

           9             mean that every single decision is put up 

          10             for plubbaside.  That is not I think an 

          11             effective way to do that. 

          12                    So what am I proposing?  The 

          13             systematic way to evaluate that principal, 

          14             and then I will say, let's say all 40 

          15             parents say, when there's a bad principal, 

          16             then I say well, I happen to disagree, and 

          17             here's why.  It will be there for everyone 

          18             to see and criticize.  And let me tell you, 

          19             I was in this job for a month.  At a Panel 

          20             Meeting the parents from Medgar Evers Middle 

          21             School came in, and their principal had been 

          22             removed the last year before I got there.  

          23             The superintendent removed him. 

          24                    I made an investigation personally 

          25             and I reinstated that principal over the 




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           2             objection of the superintendent.  And all 

           3             those parents came to the next  -- because I 

           4             was convinced it was done  -- he was removed 

           5             for the wrong reasons, and all those parents 

           6             came to the next meeting. 

           7                    Now I am there and accountable and 

           8             every media and every political organization 

           9             is free to criticize and hold us 

          10             accountable.  That to me is the virtue of 

          11             the current system, and we should build on 

          12             it.  And I assure you, I mean this very 

          13             sincerely, because I spent a ton of time, I 

          14             assure you, for every issue in which you 

          15             think there is parent agreement, when I get 

          16             involved, there are wide ranges of different 

          17             views. 

          18                    One of the most entertaining evenings 

          19             I have had is talking to a group of parents 

          20             about their school and whether to have 

          21             school uniforms at their schools, and I tell 

          22             you, if I left that decision to the parents, 

          23             they would all have to quit work and they 

          24             would still be meeting trying to resolve 

          25             that issue.




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           2                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    Mr. Chair 

           3             and Madam Chair.  I feel very strongly about 

           4             this issue when we talk about juice and 

           5             accountability, because I think what's been 

           6             put together right now is a system that goes 

           7             to the heart of accountability.  And as a 

           8             result of that, you have a Mayor that has 

           9             had, a Deputy Mayor who has children in the 

          10             system, who has a neighbor next door at the 

          11             Tweed Building called the Chancellor and the 

          12             Department Of Education, and that's what 

          13             accountability is about, for that 

          14             mulit-prong approach in making sure we 

          15             respond not only to individual parent needs, 

          16             but issues involving the school itself.  And 

          17             what the Chancellor has talked about or 

          18             others have talked about is that we also do 

          19             unannounced visits.  We go out on a regular 

          20             basis to schools to monitor what's going on, 

          21             to do informal feedback with parents as far 

          22             as what's happening in the schools, and 

          23             making sure that we really hear what the 

          24             people in the schools are directly saying, 

          25             and not what we read in the newspapers.  




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           2             That way we get a first-hand view of exactly 

           3             what's happening and being out at a 

           4             community meeting. 

           5                    So I mean, I respectfully disagree to 

           6             the point where there isn't a lack of juice 

           7             or there isn't any juice.  Juice is all over 

           8             the place.  It's how you use the juice and 

           9             how the juice is then followed up on to make 

          10             sure there's accountability in the system, 

          11             and that's the role of the Chancellor.

          12                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    I'm getting 

          13             thirsty hearing all this talk about juice.  

          14             Mr. Clayton has a brief, a very brief 

          15             follow-up question.

          16                    MR. CLAYTON:   Thank you, Mr. Chair.  

          17             Mr. Klein, you mentioned that district 75 

          18             will probably stay intact.  This is just a 

          19             question of clarification.  What's going to 

          20             happen with district 85, the schools under 

          21             registration review, and we also have 73 

          22             alternative schools that fall up under the 

          23             alternative high school office.  What's 

          24             happening with those two entities?

          25                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    District 85, the 




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           2             services to those schools will be preserved.  

           3             In other words, the additional services that 

           4             they now receive, the additional hours, the 

           5             additional financial support, that will be 

           6             maintained.  The schools themselves will be 

           7             repatriated to their community, which I 

           8             think is a positive development. 

           9                    With respect to the alternative 

          10             school district, two things.  We will  -- 

          11             those schools that are -- even though 

          12             they're in the alternative district that are 

          13             normal functioning high schools and so 

          14             forth, will again, be repatriated to the 

          15             communities. 

          16                    There's a series of programs as well, 

          17             which will be integrated into what the Mayor 

          18             announced yesterday, which was to have a 

          19             whole student support set of programs that 

          20             will be integrated under one office in that 

          21             respect.

          22                    MR. CLAYTON:    Thank you.

          23                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Brown, very 

          24             brief follow up.

          25                    MS. BROWN:   Just to be clear, you 




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           2             mentioned that where these parent engagement 

           3             boards would follow the same lines as the 32 

           4             community school districts, and also, in 

           5             relationship to the relationship between the 

           6             regional boards.  So is it fair to say that 

           7             any information concerning the achievement 

           8             of these 32 districts would actually come 

           9             out of that  -- would come from one of those 

          10             12 regional boards? 

          11                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    When you say any 

          12             information? 

          13                    MS. BROWN:    Information about 

          14             student achievement as a whole.  Case in 

          15             point, community school district 13 would be 

          16             part of one of these regional boards.  So 

          17             any information concerning student 

          18             achievement, would also come from one of the  

          19             -- the information would come from  --

          20                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    It would not 

          21             be lumped together, if I hear you correctly.  

          22             It would be reflective of the individual 

          23             district itself.

          24                    MS. BROWN:    But the purpose that a 

          25             superintendent currently serves now would 




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           2             be -- the information that we currently 

           3             receive from a superintendent now, would 

           4             actually come out of one of the regional 

           5             offices?

           6                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Correct.  But it 

           7             would come out by district, as well as in 

           8             these very small clusters of 12 schools.  So 

           9             you would have it actually at three levels.

          10                    MS. BROWN:    So, again, programs 

          11             that districts run that are successful, case 

          12             in point, say a marching band program for 

          13             the children within a particular district, a 

          14             gymnastic program on a Saturday for children 

          15             within a particular district, would be able 

          16             to be maintained under the supervision of 

          17             the regional superintendent?

          18                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    These programs 

          19             will be maintained, yes.  Now, the specifics 

          20             may depend on the nature of the program 

          21             whether it would be under the regional 

          22             superintendent, under parent office, but the 

          23             programs obviously would be preserved.

          24                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Levin, 

          25             brief follow up.




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           2                    MR. LEVIN:   This is not a question, 

           3             Chancellor Klein, but just an observation.  

           4             I would implore you as you look at district 

           5             75, to understand the special needs of those 

           6             who have mental health issues.  I think 

           7             there's a massive failure in the system 

           8             right now.

           9                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    I actually  -- 

          10             it may not be a question, but I think there 

          11             is a need to do significantly more, and one 

          12             of the things that the Mayor announced 

          13             yesterday is very important, which is we 

          14             need to create a whole system, not just 

          15             mental health, and that is important, but 

          16             health and support and guidance.  We've got 

          17             to realize that a critical aspect of 

          18             education is really to deal with the full 

          19             range of these children's needs, and one of 

          20             the really good things about having an 

          21             integrated system under the Mayor's office 

          22             is, Tom Friedman and I, the Commissioner Of 

          23             Health, along with the Commissioner from 

          24             Mental Health, we're able to work together 

          25             in a much more coherent and easy way, and I 




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           2             think that will bear fruit over time as the 

           3             Mayor's proposal will show. 

           4                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    I think 

           5             Assemblywoman Pheffer wanted to ask a brief 

           6             follow up with respect to your view of the 

           7             organization of district 75 in terms of 

           8             Parent Engagement Council for district 75 

           9             and whether there would be incorporated into 

          10             district 75 high schools as well.

          11                    MS. PHEFFER:   Or that high schools 

          12             or district 75, would they have their own 

          13             parent engagement board?

          14                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    What we're 

          15             going to do is really sit down and work with 

          16             you around that.  Again, as the Mayor 

          17             charged the Chancellor yesterday, he has to 

          18             get back with a specific response with 

          19             respect to 75, and I think high schools, we 

          20             really want to have further conversation and 

          21             reflect how we interface with the parents of 

          22             high schools now. 

          23                    So I mean, we're open for discussion 

          24             on that.

          25                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Thomson.




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           2                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.  I 

           3             too am concerned about district 75.  We've 

           4             heard some heart-wrenching testimony across 

           5             the City from parents of children with 

           6             special needs who really have not had, in 

           7             the past, a place to go to, because they 

           8             have not had a board.  So we have a special 

           9             interest in that. 

          10                    I just wanted to say from everything 

          11             we know, good education is really about a 

          12             partnership between home community and the 

          13             school.  I think a lot  -- obviously we've 

          14             been thinking a lot about this for the last 

          15             few months and delivery of education 

          16             services to the community is very different 

          17             from the delivery of any other kind of City 

          18             service.  You know, we have a Department Of 

          19             Transportation.  We have a Department Of 

          20             Sanitation.  All of those things are really 

          21             about customer service and delivery of 

          22             services. 

          23                    Education is different because it 

          24             really is about a partnership.  It's not 

          25             going to work if the parents aren't 




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           2             partners.  So much of the relationship has 

           3             been confrontational and dysfunctional for 

           4             so many years, and I think we have to figure 

           5             out a way to make this a partnership with 

           6             everybody.  The community, the business 

           7             community, the parents, the administrators, 

           8             the teachers and the school system working 

           9             together for student achievement.  That's 

          10             got to be the goal.  And often that has not 

          11             happened. 

          12                    I'm very interested in the parent 

          13             engagement boards, and I see  -- I guess 

          14             clarify, just confirm for me what I heard is 

          15             right, that your idea is that these boards 

          16             would have input into the evaluation of the 

          17             superintendent or the senior official in the 

          18             district, they would approve zoning, which 

          19             has been something we've heard across the 

          20             City, concern about local community zoning.  

          21             They would not approve but comment on the 

          22             CEP operating and capital budgets; am I 

          23             right?

          24                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Yes.

          25                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    How would the 




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           2             parents provide that input into the senior 

           3             education official's evaluation?  Would it 

           4             be by survey?  Would it be by an annual 

           5             report?

           6                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Yes.  Again, 

           7             we're working out these processes right now, 

           8             but I think it would include probably 

           9             combination of meetings with the school 

          10             leadership people, who are parents, meeting 

          11             with the Parent Association people.  Some 

          12             surveying.  But we need to figure -- the 

          13             details obviously would have to be worked 

          14             through.  We need to figure out a way to get 

          15             that input.

          16                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Well, I 

          17             applaud you for including that in the 

          18             responsibility.  The other question I have 

          19             is, who controls the flow of information?  

          20             On these parent engagement boards, may 

          21             parents ask the questions, you know, of the 

          22             superintendent or senior official?  Can they 

          23             say, this school is not performing well.  

          24             Let's analyze.  Give us data.  Is 

          25             information, you know, does it go both ways, 




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           2             or is it just the senior official 

           3             controlling the information?

           4                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    No.  

           5             Information goes both ways, and in New York, 

           6             whether you legislate that or not, it's 

           7             going to happen.

           8                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Sometimes it 

           9             doesn't happen as quickly as people would 

          10             like.  As long as there's that commitment.  

          11             The principal of transparency of information 

          12             I think is what I'm getting at.

          13                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    I get each day 

          14             100 e-mails from parents, and I have staff 

          15             who are then chasing this information down.  

          16             One of the metrics that we will include is 

          17             not just how frequently issues get resolved 

          18             in the school, but in these centers.  How 

          19             long does it take from the time the parent 

          20             comes in until we get a resolution of the 

          21             issue, and we'll have metrics and publish 

          22             them. 

          23                    One of the things the parent 

          24             engagement board could sensibly do is they 

          25             can send somebody in and say here's a 




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           2             concern, and actually see how the process 

           3             works, and whether they get any 

           4             satisfaction.  It's going to be I think the 

           5             kind of thing that we need to be held 

           6             accountable for, and one of the real 

           7             problems is, too many times you get a call 

           8             to the system and you never here again.  

           9             People feel utterly disrespected, and that 

          10             is totally unacceptable.

          11                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    I applaud you 

          12             for that as well.  Are we still committed to 

          13             school leadership teams as an entity?

          14                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Absolutely.

          15                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    Without a 

          16             question.

          17                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    We've had a 

          18             lot of feedback across the City, and we've 

          19             also requested some information from you on 

          20             the evaluation from the Urban League and 

          21             internal evaluations of school leadership 

          22             teams.  We've got a lot of feedback from 

          23             parents on the issue of training.  Parents 

          24             feeling lost sometimes at the table with the 

          25             educators, because they don't have the 




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           2             information they need to be able to converse 

           3             and talk about the CEP. 

           4                    Sometimes principals really haven't 

           5             bought into it, and parents are just not 

           6             treated with respect the way they should.  

           7             Could you maybe talk a little about the 

           8             training and the accountability regarding 

           9             school leadership teams?

          10                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Well, again, I 

          11             think that we will have, as I said, through 

          12             this academy, training also partnering with 

          13             community groups.  In addition, though, we 

          14             will have this input and accountability, 

          15             which we will make clear.  In other words, 

          16             we'll have mechanisms.  There will be data 

          17             which these parent boards can have just like 

          18             we see, and then they'll be decisions.  So I 

          19             think this is an effort to increase 

          20             transparency.

          21                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Great.  I have 

          22             one more question.  I don't want to belabor 

          23             it, but I'm not sure if I heard it right.  

          24             The parent engagement boards will be within 

          25             the same geography as current school board 




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           2             lines.  There will be a superintendent 

           3             responsible for that.  One superintendent 

           4             responsible for that district?

           5                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    No.  There will 

           6             be one superintendent responsible for that 

           7             district, as well as one or two other 

           8             districts.

           9                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    So each of the 

          10             10 superintendents might be responsible for 

          11             three or whatever?

          12                    CHANCELLOR KLEIN:    Correct.

          13                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you very 

          14             much, and we look forward to working with 

          15             you in the days ahead.

          16                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Chancellor, 

          17             Mr. Deputy Mayor, first of all, let me thank 

          18             you very much for your time, your candid 

          19             remarks.  Your invitation to continue this 

          20             conversation around The State of New York, 

          21             and specifically with this task force as we 

          22             move towards completion of our 

          23             recommendations in 30 days. 

          24                    I want to thank you very much for the 

          25             hard work and the obvious thoughtfulness 




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           2             that has gone into your proposal thus far, 

           3             which I understand is still a work in 

           4             progress that we all have to contribute to. 

           5                    Let me just say that I think that you 

           6             have already noted from the discussion that 

           7             we've had this morning that what we have 

           8             heard as a task force over the last several 

           9             months as we've conducted these hearings is 

          10             that arriving at that delicate and difficult 

          11             balance of professional decision making 

          12             based on best practices with parent and 

          13             community engagement, finding that right 

          14             balance, which we clearly haven't done over 

          15             the last 30 years, is really the mission 

          16             that I think we share together. 

          17                    It's been my experience that parents 

          18             don't want to run schools, but they do want 

          19             well-run schools, and in that  -- please, in 

          20             that endeavor, the issue of transparency we 

          21             have heard over and over again, and the 

          22             ability to know that their voices will be 

          23             heard, and that there is a genuine influence 

          24             that parents and the community can exert to 

          25             ensure that their schools are well run.  




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           2             That's the balance that I know that we all 

           3             struggle with together. 

           4                    So it seems to me that we are on the 

           5             same page, even if we don't know what all 

           6             the words are yet, but we look forward to 

           7             working with you and coming to a conclusion 

           8             that you and we and everyone in the City 

           9             will feel in reality is a system that really 

          10             works for the children of The City of New 

          11             York.

          12                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    I just wanted 

          13             to say one more thing.  I think all New 

          14             Yorkers want a really top notch, wonderful 

          15             public school system, and I'm sure I can 

          16             speak for most New Yorkers, we are rooting 

          17             for you.  We want you to fix it.

          18                    DEPUTY MAYOR WALCOTT:    Thank you 

          19             very much, and we look forward to working 

          20             with you.

          21                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you very 

          22             much.  Thank you.  As the Chancellor is 

          23             leaving, I need to make one or two 

          24             announcements so that people who want to 

          25             testify don't get lost in the mix. 




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           2                    I was told that there were some 

           3             people who had registered to testify who 

           4             rushed in when they saw the Chancellor here 

           5             and may not have signed up in the back.  In 

           6             order for us to get to you, many of you who 

           7             want to testify, you do have to make sure 

           8             that you have registered in the back, so 

           9             that we will know that you are here and that 

          10             you want to testify. 

          11                    In addition, we do have a Spanish 

          12             interpreter here.  Nancy, where are you?  

          13             Nancy's in the back.  She's raising her 

          14             hand.  She's in the back.  If there's anyone 

          15             who is in need of a Spanish interpreter, we 

          16             have that in the back. 

          17                    Let me just again repeat what I said 

          18             when many of you had not arrived earlier 

          19             this morning.  We have a very long day ahead 

          20             of us.  We expect to be here well into the 

          21             evening.  Maybe as late as 12 midnight 

          22             tonight.  We have a lot of people who have 

          23             signed up to testify. 

          24                    I am going to be unfortunately very 

          25             strict in limiting the testimony to five 




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           2             minutes.  That's not intended to cut you 

           3             off.  It's intended to allow the other 100 

           4             people during the course of the day to 

           5             testify. 

           6                    I'm going to remind you that your 

           7             testimony is five minutes in duration.  If 

           8             you're getting close to that point, I'm 

           9             going to hold up this sign that says 30 

          10             seconds to go.  So we're going to try to get 

          11             through all of the testimony.  Listen to all 

          12             of you very carefully, and then we are going 

          13             to make our report in 30 days based on what 

          14             we have heard from you and around the 

          15             boroughs over the last several months.  Now 

          16             we shall continue.

          17                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    We'd like to 

          18             invite the Honorable Major Owens, 

          19             Congressman from the 11th Congressional 

          20             District in Brooklyn. 

          21                    MR. RIVERA:    I will translate what 

          22             Steve Sanders said, but not as long. 

          23                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Good morning.

          24                    MR. OWENS:   Good morning.  

          25             Mr. Chairman and members of the task force, 




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           2             I appreciate this opportunity to testify.  

           3             And I certainly as an advocate for citizen 

           4             participation, am appreciative of the fact 

           5             that there are so many people here, and that 

           6             you will be here until midnight, and the 

           7             input is sought. 

           8                    I certainly will abide by your time 

           9             regulations as a result of understanding 

          10             what you're up against.  I want to begin 

          11             also by congratulating Mayor Bloomberg and 

          12             Chancellor Klein on their beginning.  The 

          13             Mayor's speech yesterday was quite 

          14             inspiring.  I was inspired by his personal 

          15             commitment and his passion with respect to 

          16             this task.  And I would like to pledge my 

          17             cooperation and hope the rest of us will 

          18             pledge cooperation to try to make it work, 

          19             to fix it as she said before, we hit rock 

          20             bottom and there is nowhere to go but up, 

          21             and I think we should all want to go that 

          22             way. 

          23                    In order to do that, however, there 

          24             has to be some respect for the fact that 

          25             this is a very difficult task and there are 




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           2             a lot of players and a lot of people who 

           3             have a lot of experience who could have a 

           4             lot of input here.  I want to offer my 

           5             credentials as one of those people. 

           6                    Everybody, of course, interested in 

           7             education, has some positive contributions 

           8             to make, but for 40 years, more than 40 

           9             years, I've been a citizen observer of our 

          10             education system.  I had three sons that 

          11             went through the public school system and I 

          12             have now a grandson in the public school 

          13             system. 

          14                    The CDA commissioner, under John 

          15             Lindsey.  I was a major advocate for 

          16             community decentralization and community 

          17             control and citizen participation, and I'd 

          18             like to say that for all of those people who 

          19             are very critical and accuse the present 

          20             state of our school system, accuse the 

          21             school boards and the citizen participation 

          22             process as being responsible for the present 

          23             state of our school, I disagree.  And I 

          24             would like to offer just one quick 

          25             observation that I think some of you can 




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           2             clearly understand. 

           3                    The amount of money spent per child 

           4             in New York City right now in the elementary 

           5             schools is greater than the amount of money 

           6             spent per child in the high schools.  This 

           7             is the only place in the country where that 

           8             kind of ratio exists.  Everywhere else the 

           9             amount of money spent for high school 

          10             students is greater, because it cost more.  

          11             Laboratory equipment, teachers.  So you 

          12             expect to spend more for high school 

          13             students. 

          14                    I think the advocacy of community 

          15             school boards and the fight that they 

          16             conducted at budget cutting time, has kept 

          17             their budgets up at a level which was more 

          18             reasonable, and that the fact that the high 

          19             schools had no advocates, they were totally 

          20             in the hands of professionals, explains this 

          21             unfortunate phenomenon. 

          22                    We should not be spending less per 

          23             child in high school than we are on 

          24             elementary school.  The absence of the 

          25             participation is a problem there.  For the 




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           2             last 20 years in congress I have been on the 

           3             Education Committee.  Before that I was on 

           4             the State Senate Education Committee. 

           5                    I would like to point out that 

           6             whereas we deal with big figures and 

           7             concepts and ideas in Washington, I come 

           8             home and get involved in the micro problems 

           9             of our school system, through the Martin 

          10             Luther King Commission, which I created 18 

          11             years ago.  It's an advisory committee for 

          12             my congressional district, as well it's a 

          13             nonprofit organization now.  National 

          14             organization called SECME, responsible for 

          15             trying to get greater scholarships for 

          16             students who want to study science and 

          17             engineering, has asked me to be the national 

          18             representative for parent empowerment, and I 

          19             have taken on that responsibility.  I think 

          20             parent participation is key.  It is not, of 

          21             course, the only important component, but 

          22             it's very key. 

          23                    I think the state legislature has a 

          24             vital role here, and I hope that you 

          25             understand that we're dependent on you to 




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           2             maintain some checks and balances here.  

           3             Whereas I applaud the Bloomberg client team, 

           4             and I applaud the entry of the private 

           5             sector into this process, some very powerful 

           6             people are getting involved,  I worry about 

           7             the arrogance of the private sector.  I 

           8             worry about the fact that they don't 

           9             appreciate enough that this is a very 

          10             complex endeavor we're undertaking here, and 

          11             it requires people with a great deal of 

          12             experience.  Experience matters a great 

          13             deal.

          14                    The power points of the business 

          15             boardroom is not enough after Enron and 

          16             Worldcom, and so forth, we know that private 

          17             sector doesn't have everything exactly under 

          18             control either.  So they should be a little 

          19             less arrogant. 

          20                    It is important that you proceed with 

          21             the Voting Rights Act mandate in mind.  That 

          22             you not diminish the power of minorities in 

          23             the process of accepting whatever is being 

          24             proposed here by the Mayor in terms of 

          25             parent engagement board.  There is a need to 




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           2             not diminish the power.  There's a legal 

           3             problem there, which I won't go into, other 

           4             people can handle that much better, but 

           5             there's a common-sense participation 

           6             dividend that we must maintain. 

           7                    Checks and balances requires that we 

           8             have recognized participation.  That we 

           9             structure it in a way which is meaningful, 

          10             which means that there has to be some 

          11             mandate and some basis in law for what the 

          12             participating parents do.  It cannot be all 

          13             advisory.  It cannot be at the whim of a 

          14             Chancellor or the principal or 

          15             superintendent.  Law must give them some 

          16             power.

          17                    Power sharing has to be legislated to 

          18             a great degree, and I hope you will try to 

          19             give as much power as possible to parents in 

          20             the restructuring.  As much power is left 

          21             for the school boards that you can possibly 

          22             transfer to whatever inheriting body there 

          23             is, I'd like to see that power there. 

          24                    I'd like to see us think in terms of 

          25             the fact that enormous powers have been 




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           2             given to the Mayor and Chancellor, and to 

           3             give parents as much as school boards have 

           4             left in your legislation would not be an 

           5             offsetting matter at all.  It just puts them 

           6             back in the ballgame.

           7                    I'd like for you to focus on the 

           8             parent coordinator, which the Mayor has 

           9             proposed.  Parent engagement board does not 

          10             attract my attention as much as the parent 

          11             coordinator, because after all, we're told 

          12             that the structure is going to flow from the 

          13             top down to the local school, each 

          14             individual school.  So the parent engagement 

          15             boards will have some positive purposes I 

          16             suppose in terms of the coordination of 

          17             activities within an area, a geographical 

          18             area known as the school board district, but 

          19             the action is really going to be at the 

          20             school level.  The parent coordinator 

          21             becomes very important. 

          22                    I hope that you take the Mayor up on 

          23             that and go beyond what he has stated and 

          24             put it into the law that there must be a 

          25             parent coordinator for each school, 




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           2             prescribe the qualifications and require 

           3             that they make twice yearly evaluations of 

           4             that parent coordinator, and whereas the 

           5             Chancellor said the principal would select 

           6             the parent coordinator, I think that would 

           7             be folly.  I think the parent coordinators 

           8             are so important, they should be selected by 

           9             the Chancellor in consultation with the 

          10             principal and the parents.  And if there's a 

          11             gridlock there, then the Chancellor makes 

          12             the final decision there and moves on, but I 

          13             think all the stakeholders must be 

          14             respected. 

          15                    And finally, there should be a report 

          16             card on the overall performance of the 

          17             system.  What I call an opportunity to learn 

          18             report card.  The greatest problem with the 

          19             school system in New York City, and I've 

          20             seen during the 40 some years that I've been 

          21             in the City, several different 

          22             rearrangements of governance and changes in 

          23             the sytem that were positive and looked 

          24             good, but then I saw devastating budget cuts 

          25             come along right after that and wipe out the 




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           2             best features of the reform plans, and the 

           3             problem has been the elected officials in 

           4             this state and across this nation have not 

           5             owned up to their responsibilities for 

           6             providing more resources, and the 

           7             opportunity to learn is shoved aside. 

           8                    It is our responsibility as elected 

           9             officials to make certain that the 

          10             opportunity to learn is there.  We test the 

          11             children on their response to the 

          12             curriculum, whether they're learning or not.  

          13             We ought to be testing whether we're 

          14             providing the money necessary to educate 

          15             each child.  Whether we provide the money 

          16             for school facilities.  Whether we are 

          17             avoiding the fact, a situation where 

          18             children have to eat lunch at 10:45 in the 

          19             morning, because the school is so crowded, 

          20             that they have to have two or three cycles 

          21             in lunch. 

          22                    You feed a kindergarten kid at 10:45 

          23             in the morning.  He just had breakfast.  He 

          24             begins to hate school because what is being 

          25             done to him.  So all of these problems ought 




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           2             to be put in the report card, and you ought 

           3             to mandate that twice a year there be some 

           4             kind of way to judge whether we are spending 

           5             the required amount of money per pupil per 

           6             school, not just system wide.  $8,000, 

           7             $9,000 is the figure given for expenditure 

           8             system wide for New York City, but there are 

           9             some schools who are spending $4,000 per 

          10             pupil, because the greatest cost is 

          11             personnel, and the large number of 

          12             substitute teachers they have and other 

          13             factors relating to personnel, it drives the 

          14             cost down.  At the same time, it drives the 

          15             quality of education down, and the same 

          16             schools that have the low quality staff, 

          17             also have the lowest reading scores.  It 

          18             doesn't happen by magic. 

          19                    As elected officials, we should own 

          20             up to our responsibilities and be willing to 

          21             be judged by a process which holds us 

          22             accountable.

          23                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you very 

          24             much, Congressman Owens.  We are greatly 

          25             indebted to you for your dedication and 




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           2             contribution in Washington, Albany and New 

           3             York City.  I know always New York City.  

           4             Wherever else your professional endeavors 

           5             have taken you to represent the City, state 

           6             and country, I know your heart is always in 

           7             New York City and Brooklyn. 

           8                    We appreciate your advice to us, and 

           9             believe me, we take it to heart.

          10                    MR. OWENS:    I've spoken from 

          11             notes, but I ensure you, this is important 

          12             enough.  I will submit my testimony in 

          13             writing to you later.

          14                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    That would be 

          15             greatly appreciated.  Thank you, 

          16             congressman.

          17                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you so 

          18             much.  Our next speaker is Councilmember Eva 

          19             Moskowitz, Chair of the New York City 

          20             Council Education Committee, and 

          21             Councilmember Bill DeBlasio, also a member 

          22             of the New York City Council Education 

          23             Committee.

          24                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    I just want to 

          25             note for the audience and for the task force 




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           2             that Councilmember Eva Moskowitz, who is 

           3             also a Councilmember of my district and also 

           4             Chair of the Education Committee, has 

           5             postponed the birth of her child.  The due 

           6             date was actually yesterday.  We have a 

           7             paramedic somewhere in the vicinity, because 

           8             no one on this task force has any experience 

           9             in delivering children.  We want to thank 

          10             you both for being here, and especially to 

          11             Eva, for rather heroic effort to testify 

          12             this morning.

          13                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Are you 

          14             feeling okay today?

          15                    MS. MOSKOWITZ:    I am.  I am.  

          16             Although I'd like this baby to come.  Thank 

          17             you very, very much, Chair Sanders and Chair 

          18             Thomson, and the rest of this task force.  I 

          19             very much appreciate the opportunity to be 

          20             here.  Both Councilmember DeBlasio and I 

          21             have submitted The Education Committee's 

          22             formal proposal for the replacement of 

          23             school boards, and I will talk very, very 

          24             briefly about it, but I just wanted to 

          25             extemporaneously give you some very, very 




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           2             brief comments. 

           3                    I and The Education Committee 

           4             supported mayoral control, because we 

           5             believe that we had a dysfunctional system 

           6             and there was a lot of debate about exactly 

           7             what form mayoral control should take, but 

           8             we made a very bold decision early on that 

           9             we thought that was the right way to go. 

          10                    However, we always envisioned a 

          11             counterweight to vesting tremendous 

          12             authority in the mayoralty, and the 

          13             committee has come up with a fairly specific 

          14             proposal for how to ensure community and 

          15             parental input. 

          16                    I would also just like to say that we 

          17             now have experience.  We have five months of 

          18             experience with mayoral control, and we have 

          19             already run into certain problems.  And I 

          20             want to echo what Terri Thomson said and 

          21             Assemblyman Sanders said, in the sense that 

          22             I am delighted that Mayor Bloomberg has 

          23             staked his political reputation on 

          24             education. 

          25                    I think that is such an important 




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           2             contribution to the life of this City.  I 

           3             can't imagine a more difficult job than 

           4             being Chancellor of the City of New York.  I 

           5             rank it up there with the Presidency and the 

           6             Mayor.  It is an extremely challenging job, 

           7             and I think his sincerity and commitment has 

           8             already been demonstrated, but that doesn't 

           9             mean we haven't encountered problems. 

          10                    As you know, you've probably been 

          11             reading about it in the paper, despite 

          12             Chancellor Klein's commitment to 

          13             transparency, The Education Committee has 

          14             not experienced that transparency yet.  

          15             There have been substantial problems with 

          16             getting information as elected officials.  

          17             Imagine the difficulty of a parent getting 

          18             information. 

          19                    We can easily go to the media and we 

          20             can use the power of subpoena.  We have 

          21             weapons at our disposal to compel 

          22             transparency, but I think as you think about 

          23             these entities, you have to take the issue 

          24             of transparency very, very seriously. 

          25                    And I don't think it's bad 




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           2             intentions.  I think it's the nature of 

           3             different centers of power.  The executive 

           4             has a certain drive to keep control within 

           5             its purview.  And I think that necessarily 

           6             means that you're going to have conflict. 

           7                    Chancellor Klein said this morning 

           8             that if we have conflict, we're sort of done 

           9             for at the get go.  It's New York, A, and B, 

          10             I think there's inherent conflict between 

          11             managers and workers, between parents' 

          12             desires and managerial desires, and I think 

          13             that can be productive if it is channeled in 

          14             the appropriate way. 

          15                    I would agree with the Chancellor, we 

          16             don't want gridlock.  We've experienced 

          17             that, but we need real mechanisms of 

          18             accountability.  Our proposal, while it's 

          19             modeled to some extent on community boards 

          20             which have functioned, in my view, 

          21             reasonably well.  Not that there aren't 

          22             criticisms one can make.  Those are 

          23             appointed positions.  We've experienced 

          24             elections.  I think that while there are 

          25             positives, there were also negatives in turn 




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           2             of turn out and so forth. 

           3                    These parenting community school 

           4             councils would be composed of nine members 

           5             appointed by borough presidents and 

           6             Councilmembers in proportion to their 

           7             representation.  They would be term limited.  

           8             There was a lot of discussion on our 

           9             committee about whether that was a good idea 

          10             or not, and perhaps because the City Council 

          11             itself has experienced term limits, there 

          12             was a little more willingness to think that 

          13             four years was an appropriate time frame, 

          14             and that you might avoid the kind of 

          15             lifetime paralysis when people are there 

          16             saying the same thing perhaps. 

          17                    So there is a term limit provision.  

          18             We wanted it long enough so that a person 

          19             would really gain expertise.  There was also 

          20             a real strong feeling among committee 

          21             members that these boards have to evaluate 

          22             superintendents, and we wrote this knowing 

          23             that there might be a major overhaul of the 

          24             district plans, but I think our proposal can 

          25             be melded and adapted.  We really feel that 




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           2             parents and community members need to 

           3             evaluate superintendents. 

           4                    That doesn't mean hire.  That doesn't 

           5             mean fire, but it does mean a public 

           6             evaluation so that there is clear 

           7             accountability.  We also want them to 

           8             evaluate budgets.  Chancellor Klein said 

           9             this morning that where the parent wants to 

          10             have input is at the school level, and of 

          11             course, that is true, as the mother of a 

          12             four year old that's about to go to 

          13             kindergarten in the public school system, 

          14             I'm deeply concerned about the school.  But 

          15             I'm also concerned, even though he's only 

          16             four, where he's going to go to middle 

          17             school.  And so I want to know that there's 

          18             a K through 12 solution for my child.  

          19             Actually, I would prefer a pre-K through 12 

          20             solution for my child.

          21                    So I don't think it's accurate to say 

          22             that the concern is limited to the school.  

          23             It's really limited to the whole trajectory.  

          24             So I am deeply concerned about the middle 

          25             schools, even though I have a very young 




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           2             child. 

           3                    We also want these boards to be able 

           4             to advise on city-wide policy.  That doesn't 

           5             necessarily mean decide, but it means 

           6             publish reports where city-wide policies are 

           7             evaluated. 

           8                    Also, the committee felt very, very 

           9             strongly that while parents have the most at 

          10             stake, so too do community members, and the 

          11             Mayor has said repeatedly that it's going to 

          12             take the entire City of New York to fix the 

          13             school system.  He can't do it alone.  

          14             Parents can't do it alone.  The business 

          15             sector can't do it alone, and for us, that 

          16             means giving a formal role to community 

          17             members. 

          18                    The way our proposal works, a 

          19             majority of the members are parents.  Let me 

          20             stop there, because I see the sign, and 

          21             simply say that we've had  -- since I've 

          22             been on The Education Committee, I've gone 

          23             through three Chancellors, and each of them 

          24             I think has been deeply committed to 

          25             education and very talented. 




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           2                    There's a danger in believing in the 

           3             great man theory of history, where you are 

           4             somehow going to single handedly come up 

           5             with the right organizational chart and fix 

           6             this.  I don't think that's the way 

           7             education works.  And I think your role is 

           8             absolutely critical in guaranteeing a level 

           9             of community and parental input.  Thank you 

          10             very much.

          11                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

          12                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you.  

          13             Councilman DeBlasio.

          14                    MR. DEBLASIO:    I want to thank both 

          15             chairs for the opportunity to testify, and I 

          16             want to particularly thank Robin and Ernest 

          17             for their long years of fighting for 

          18             parents. 

          19                    Let me just say at the outset, I've 

          20             had many occasions to praise Mayor Bloomberg 

          21             and Chancellor Klein.  I thought Chancellor 

          22             Klein was a great choice for the role, and 

          23             I've had a long, positive history with 

          24             Deputy Mayor Walcott, but I don't agree with 

          25             what they're trying to do in terms of parent 




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           2             involvement.  And I hope, because this a 

           3             democracy, that we can all understand the 

           4             difference between supporting people and 

           5             believing they have good intentions, but 

           6             also have honest disagreements on how to 

           7             actually get things done. 

           8                    I do worry, and I think Eva's point 

           9             about the great man theory is very pertinent 

          10             here, I do worry sometimes that the 

          11             leadership mistakes, what they think of as 

          12             conflict equals paralysis.  What conflict 

          13             can also mean is democracy and 

          14             accountability, if it's the right kind of 

          15             process, and I think sometimes a mistake is 

          16             made in how they analyze that. 

          17                    Just very briefly, I want to give my 

          18             own personal views, since Eva's represented 

          19             the views of the committee very well.  Look, 

          20             the speech yesterday, there was a lot to 

          21             like.  There were a lot of very, very 

          22             helpful initiatives.  Particularly in terms 

          23             of lowering middle class size.  As Eva said, 

          24             that middle schools is one of the greatest 

          25             concerns of parents throughout the City, and 




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           2             reducing the wrong kind of bureaucracy.  

           3             There are a lot of great initiatives in 

           4             terms of that.

           5                    But I want to speak as a parent of 

           6             two public school children in elementary 

           7             school and as a former community school 

           8             board member, and say that I think we are 

           9             still very much lacking in the Mayor and the 

          10             Chancellor's proposal.  In terms of genuine 

          11             parent power and genuine parent role in 

          12             determining their children's education, I 

          13             would say the two crucial areas I want to 

          14             focus on are accountability and 

          15             responsiveness. 

          16                    I think the Mayor and the 

          17             Chancellor's proposals are lacking in terms 

          18             of both.  We have to remember that education 

          19             is an area of government service essentially 

          20             unlike any other in terms of the daily and 

          21             intense impact that public servants have 

          22             with citizens, and the immediate impact of 

          23             that service on citizens, students and 

          24             parents alike.

          25                    We generally don't come in contact 




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           2             every day with the police or fire or 

           3             whatever other service you can think of, but 

           4             with education, it's unlike anything else, 

           5             and it therefore demands a level of 

           6             accountability and responsiveness that is 

           7             much greater than in other fields.  We can't 

           8             simply have parents having input or an 

           9             advisory role, because we all know that you 

          10             start with that concept and tragically 

          11             enough, you usually decline from that point.  

          12             It usually ends up being less and less 

          13             input, and less and less meaningful.

          14                    With all due respect to the problems 

          15             that may have existed with community school 

          16             boards, there were some very, very good 

          17             examples of effective community school 

          18             boards.  The one I happened to serve on, 

          19             community school board 15 in Brooklyn, I 

          20             think was one of them, where parents had a 

          21             genuine ability to have checks and balances.

          22                    Because there was some real power in 

          23             the old days, a much greater level of power, 

          24             but even recently, power over policy making 

          25             locally and over superintendent selection.  




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           2             Parents had something to work with to ensure 

           3             accountability. 

           4                    In our proposal from The Education 

           5             Committee, because we do involve parents in 

           6             a formal evaluation role of superintendents 

           7             and give them a public role in oversight, it 

           8             really creates a check and balance.  And I 

           9             worry in any democratic system about a lot 

          10             of checks and balances. 

          11                    Look, I also think I can see in terms 

          12             of parent coordinators in schools, I could 

          13             see a principal choosing a great parent 

          14             coordinator, but by definition, the parent 

          15             coordinator should not be chosen by a 

          16             principal.  That coordinator must have the 

          17             parents' interest first and not have a 

          18             conflict of interest, in a sense, of who has 

          19             appointed them. 

          20                    Likewise, I believe fundamentally in 

          21             elections to any body, we had problems with 

          22             community school boards because the way the 

          23             elections were structured and the time of 

          24             year they were held.  That was an ongoing 

          25             problem that I wish we had rectified and 




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           2             maybe we would not have this conversation 

           3             here today, but the specific reason  -- I 

           4             think the appointed idea is strong is 

           5             because the members would be appointed to 

           6             these regional panels by elected officials, 

           7             it creates a check and balance.  Elected 

           8             officials who happen to be responsible for 

           9             the budgets of the school system are in a 

          10             position to create some real checks and 

          11             balances.  The parent and community 

          12             representatives at local level can be backed 

          13             by that power, and that would also give them 

          14             a real accountability role. 

          15                    And finally, I want to say that, you 

          16             know, I am troubled by any system that is 

          17             too top down, and I'm troubled by any system 

          18             in a city of eight million people that 

          19             relies upon 10 regional centers, and assumes 

          20             we can provide real, direct customer 

          21             service.  It's just too big. 

          22                    We have to realize how valuable 

          23             superintendencies and district offices have 

          24             been as a mediating agent, as a place for 

          25             parents to go for real answers and real 




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           2             results.  And we need to keep that kind of 

           3             immediacy in the process. 

           4                    Parents have to be able to go deal 

           5             with all the complex issues, special 

           6             education, variances, the path from 

           7             elementary school to middle school, 

           8             etcetera.  They cannot simply do it at the 

           9             single school level.  There has to be local, 

          10             sensitive, community-friendly mediating 

          11             agents.  Many superintendencies have played 

          12             that role. 

          13                    We have to create the local level in 

          14             this new plan and in that same vision, and 

          15             have strong local parent bodies with real 

          16             defined responsibilities to create 

          17             accountability. 

          18                    One last comment.  I do respect that 

          19             the Chancellor went through some trouble to 

          20             organize public sessions where parents could 

          21             have input.  We had one at Brooklyn Tech, 

          22             and that's a good thing, but let's not 

          23             mistake a single session with hundreds of 

          24             people, where they have a few minutes to 

          25             speak and break up in groups, or maybe a few 




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           2             minutes at the microphone, for something 

           3             that is real accountability and real 

           4             responsiveness.  That can only be achieved 

           5             at the local level day in and day out.  

           6             Thank you very much.

           7                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you very 

           8             much.

           9                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you very 

          10             much.

          11                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you very 

          12             much, Councilmembers.  We may have one or 

          13             two very brief questions. 

          14                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Jack Friedman.

          15                    MR. FRIEDMAN:   Good morning.  Very 

          16             brief question.  Why do you feel as if an 

          17             appointed board would get Justice Department 

          18             approval in replacement of an elected board?

          19                    MS. MOSKOWITZ:    I should, in the 

          20             interest of full disclosure, I'm not a 

          21             lawyer, and I'm not an expert of the  

          22             Justice Department rulings, but Klein seems 

          23             very confident that a non-elective body will 

          24             get Justice approval, and I would think that 

          25             an appointed board by elected officials is 




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           2             more in keeping with the goals of 

           3             representation than his proposal.  So that's 

           4             just a sort of speculative guess.  I'm not 

           5             knowledgeable about the Justice Department 

           6             and how they rule on these matters. 

           7                    MR. DEBLASIO:    Just a quick follow 

           8             up.  Justice Department, for better or 

           9             worse, did approve the end of community 

          10             school boards as we knew them previously, 

          11             which obviously were local and elected and 

          12             representative.  And it seems to me  -- I 

          13             know for a fact that the Justice Department 

          14             approved the various lines by which elected 

          15             officials at the city and state levels are 

          16             elected, and we see appropriate diversity in 

          17             all those bodies.  So I think it stands to 

          18             reason that the  appointed process flowing 

          19             from those other elected districts, would be 

          20             consistent. 

          21                    Beyond that, I think we have to look 

          22             at the fact that in the Chancellor's 

          23             proposal, the so called elections I think 

          24             are very, very nebulous, they could occur 

          25             with a very small number of parents, and 




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           2             bluntly, as much as many PTAs and other 

           3             parent groupings and SLTs are functioning in 

           4             a balance fashion, it's not talking out of 

           5             school, so to speak, to say there are still 

           6             many SLTs and PTAs that are dominated by 

           7             their principal and are not representative. 

           8                    If those entities are sending the 

           9             representative to the regional body, that 

          10             does not suggest a necessarily 

          11             representative entity of the regional body. 

          12             I would think the Justice Department would 

          13             see this more of a guarantee of 

          14             representation than the Chancellor's 

          15             proposal.

          16                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Thomson.

          17                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    I haven't had 

          18             a chance to read your testimony, your 

          19             official City Council recommendation, but 

          20             does your proposal make any recommendation 

          21             for how we could ensure that there's 

          22             geographic racial and ethnic diversity 

          23             within these boards, since they're appointed 

          24             by individual legislators?

          25                    MS. MOSKOWITZ:    It does not make 




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           2             reference to guarantees.  I would simply 

           3             echo Councilmember DeBlasio's point about 

           4             the City Council and its diversity and the 

           5             changing face of elected officials in New 

           6             York City.  I think there's a deep 

           7             commitment to the diversity among elected 

           8             officials, but we did not prescribe that in 

           9             any way.

          10                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

          11                    MR. DEBLASIO:    One quick comment.  

          12             The balance between City Councilmembers and 

          13             borough presidents I think does help to 

          14             achieve geographical diversity, because I 

          15             think any borough president in their right 

          16             mind is going to make sure that the 

          17             different elements of their borough are 

          18             represented, and I think bluntly, any City 

          19             Councilmember in their right mind is going 

          20             to make sure that their neighborhoods, their 

          21             various neighborhoods and demographic groups 

          22             are represented as well.  And you know from 

          23             your experience with the borough president, 

          24             how sensitive everyone is to make sure we do 

          25             strike a balance.




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           2                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Clayton.

           3                    MR. CLAYTON:   Yes.  First of all, I 

           4             want to thank you all for coming here today, 

           5             and I don't have a question.  I just want to 

           6             say on behalf of the United Parents 

           7             Association, that we appreciate the work 

           8             that both of you do in the City Council.  I 

           9             mean, you're very active, along with Robert 

          10             Jackson, but Bill DeBlasio has been very 

          11             strong and outspoken proponent on our 

          12             children in the system.  So I just wanted to 

          13             thank you, and keep up the good work.

          14                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Councilmembers 

          15             Moskowitz and DeBlasio, I think 

          16             Mr. Clayton's remarks reflects the views 

          17             that are held by all the members of this 

          18             task force.  Certainly mine.  Your 

          19             contributions as individuals and as a body 

          20             have been a very, very important part of the 

          21             overall debate of the future of the public 

          22             education, and frankly, this can't be 

          23             accomplished without your very strong input.  

          24             So we thank you very much for what you've 

          25             already done, and Eva, get home now.




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           2                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Above and 

           3             beyond the call.  Definitely.

           4                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you.

           5                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you very 

           6             much.  Our next speaker is James Williams 

           7             from the Chancellor's Parent Advisory 

           8             Council. 

           9                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    I should make 

          10             mention we were joined a little while ago by 

          11             Renee Hill, I don't think we mentioned that, 

          12             and Cassandra Mullen has just arrived, and 

          13             we are appreciative of that as well.  Again, 

          14             I will just repeat for the edification of 

          15             all those who are arriving late or recently, 

          16             that because of the enormous 

          17             pre-registration for these hearings, we have 

          18             to really pretty strictly keep to the five 

          19             minute time limit for witnesses.  This is so 

          20             we can hear from as many as we can right up 

          21             through midnight tonight, and I will remind 

          22             people with a gentle note that indicates 

          23             when their time is about to expire.  So try 

          24             to choose your words carefully.

          25                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Can I just 




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           2             add, this is one speaker, one five-minute 

           3             segment, okay?

           4                    MR. WILLIAMS:    Good morning.  On 

           5             behalf of CPAC, I'd like to thank you for 

           6             the opportunity to testify before this 

           7             committee.

           8                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Could you move 

           9             the microphone a little closer.

          10                    MR. WILLIAMS:   My name is James 

          11             Williams, I'm a parent of a child attending 

          12             school in district 28 in Queens.  I'm a past 

          13             PA president.  I served on CPAC as second 

          14             chair.  I've served on leadership teams in 

          15             both the district and on the school level. 

          16                    Albany has handed control of the 

          17             schools to Mayor Bloomberg with the intent 

          18             of eliminating the 32 school districts.  Any 

          19             objective observer can see that the 

          20             ineffectual boards have lost their way, but 

          21             how do we replace them? 

          22                    The Mayor and the legislators 

          23             recognizes that parents must have a 

          24             meaningful role in the new system of school 

          25             governance.  Anything less would be a wasted 




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           2             opportunity to recover from recent years of 

           3             parental disconnect in many districts. 

           4                    Parents want the bodies that replace 

           5             the existing community school boards to have 

           6             as their mission the insurance of 

           7             transparency, accountability, equity and 

           8             access.  We look forward to the existing 

           9             systems in place to provide the basis for an 

          10             ongoing parental involvement. 

          11                    We want CPAC to be recognized as a 

          12             legal entity in the school governance law.  

          13             CPAC is comprised of presidents of 

          14             Presidents Councils and elected 

          15             representatives, representing the parents of 

          16             all students in the New York City school 

          17             system. 

          18                    CPAC is an important means by which 

          19             parent leaders obtain important information 

          20             to share with their districts.  CPAC has 

          21             become the lobbying arm for the PAs and 

          22             PTAs.  Last year we took over 1,500 people 

          23             to Albany on Lobby Day and did in house 

          24             lobbying of all local politicians in New 

          25             York City.  Our efforts included rallies at 




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           2             City Hall and speaking at meetings of 

           3             concerned parents to help educate parents 

           4             about the important financial problems 

           5             facing our schools. 

           6                    District Presidents' Councils are 

           7             important means by which parent leaders 

           8             organize for change in their district 

           9             schools.  Presidents' Councils are important 

          10             because they're tied to the community.  They 

          11             are often the means by which information and 

          12             experience circulate throughout the 

          13             district. 

          14                    PAs and PTAs are the core group from 

          15             which parent leaders come.  They provide 

          16             much needed fund-raising and parent 

          17             leadership in a given school.  We believe 

          18             that all schools should have a board modeled 

          19             after the School Leadership Teams.  Parents 

          20             are already trained for School Leadership 

          21             Teams. 

          22                    CPAC members believe that there 

          23             should be representative bodies modeled 

          24             after the school leadership teams to replace 

          25             the school boards for the following reasons: 




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           2                    There has been a lot of time and 

           3             money invested in training parents to 

           4             participate in school leadership teams.  If 

           5             we had to start a new system,  it would 

           6             further delay parental involvement in the 

           7             new system.

           8                    Parents of students in the public 

           9             school system need a public and open forum 

          10             to express their concerns and 

          11             recommendations about the education of their 

          12             children. 

          13                    Parents need a mechanism for handling 

          14             their grievances over their treatment by the 

          15             school and district administration.  In 

          16             other words, we need an ombudsman.

          17                    The members of CPAC believe that 

          18             representative bodies replacing the school 

          19             boards should not have merely an advisory 

          20             role, but instead have the following powers: 

          21                    Periodic and regular access to all 

          22             schools districts' budgetary and curriculum 

          23             related information. 

          24                    The right to review, evaluate, sign 

          25             off on, and if necessary, veto school 




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           2             district's budget for the school. 

           3                    The right to review and sign off on 

           4             the district's Comprehensive Education Plan. 

           5                    The right to review and evaluate the 

           6             district superintendent's performance on an 

           7             annual basis. 

           8                    The right to demand that the district 

           9             superintendent to meet with this body and 

          10             present a status plan on a monthly basis. 

          11                    The body to replace the school boards 

          12             should consist of: Parents and students 

          13             attending schools within the district, 

          14             representatives of the community 

          15             organizations in the district, pedagogical 

          16             staff members who reside in the district.

          17                    The members of the representative 

          18             bodies should be elected by the schools in 

          19             their given district.  The representative 

          20             bodies should consist of a majority of 

          21             parents.

          22                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

          23                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Williams, 

          24             you certainly helped us out with our time.  

          25             We appreciate the not only a very clear 




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           2             recitation of the position of CPAC, but 

           3             having a member of the CPAC legislative 

           4             committee, and certainly a parent of a child 

           5             attending a public school in Queens, your 

           6             point of view from both of those 

           7             perspectives is very important to us, and we 

           8             very much appreciate the fact that you 

           9             shared your thoughts with us this morning.  

          10             Thank you, sir.

          11                    MR. OWENS:    Thanks.

          12                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thanks so 

          13             much.  Our next speaker is Joan Millman, 

          14             Assemblywoman from District 52 in Brooklyn. 

          15             Good morning.

          16                    MS. MILLMAN:   Good morning, and it 

          17             is good morning, because I've gotten in 

          18             before the noon deadline.  So thank you so 

          19             much. 

          20                    I'd like to thank the committee for 

          21             holding their last and final meeting in 

          22             Brooklyn, home to 12 community school 

          23             boards, hundreds of schools, and more than 

          24             300,000 school children. 

          25                    After four other public hearings, you 




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           2             have heard hundreds of comments about school 

           3             boards.  How they function or how they don't 

           4             function.  At yesterday's press conference, 

           5             the Mayor explained his educational reform 

           6             package, which includes a major role for 

           7             parents.  A necessity for the success of any 

           8             new proposal to improve our educational 

           9             system. 

          10                    Now I haven't had a chance yet to 

          11             look at the remarks that were made earlier 

          12             to you, but listening and reading at the 

          13             press conference yesterday, I had lots of 

          14             questions.  Maybe they were answered 

          15             earlier, so I'll just pose some right now. 

          16                    The parent coordinator at each 

          17             school, how will that person be selected?  

          18             What are the qualifications?  Will that 

          19             person need to be bilingual?  Are we asking 

          20             that person to work five days a week?  Two 

          21             nights a week?  All day Saturdays? 

          22                    If that person is going to be a 

          23             pedagogue, will they belong to the UFT?  If 

          24             not, will they belong to DC 37?  I have lots 

          25             of questions that, as I said, may have 




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           2             already been answered.  Those are questions 

           3             that I will be asking my colleagues up in 

           4             Albany when we review these proposals more 

           5             closely. 

           6                    My name is Assemblywoman Joan 

           7             Millman, and I represent the following 

           8             communities in Brooklyn.  Vinegar Hill, 

           9             DUMBO, Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Boerum 

          10             Hill, Caroll Gardens and northern Park 

          11             Slope.  And up until this year, I also 

          12             represented a portion of Bay Ridge. 

          13                    I have had and do currently represent 

          14             some of the finest community school boards 

          15             in the City of New York.  They are truly 

          16             outstanding boards and they represent and 

          17             work with truly outstanding schools. 

          18                    Most of the boards are compromised of 

          19             parents of school-aged children.  Boards who 

          20             have hired outstanding principals, men and 

          21             women of vision, commitment and superior 

          22             skills.  Boards which have created 

          23             innovative schools.  Boards which have 

          24             initiated learning academies for its 

          25             teachers and the list goes on.




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           2                    The children I represent are 

           3             fortunate to be in schools that are both 

           4             teaching and learning environments.  That is 

           5             not true for the majority of youngsters who 

           6             attend New York City public schools.  For 

           7             far too long, most school boards paid little 

           8             attention to the quality of instruction, 

           9             skills of their administrators, as they were 

          10             far too busy with their very own 

          11             bureaucratic issues. 

          12                    Our educational system must work for 

          13             each and every child in each and every 

          14             neighborhood.  It is for that reason that I 

          15             voted last year to postpone school board 

          16             elections as we sought to figure out a more 

          17             workable system. 

          18                    As a former elementary school 

          19             teacher, I left the classroom more than 20 

          20             years ago to work in a program whose goal 

          21             was to improve failing schools.  I was 

          22             taught then that there were five 

          23             characteristics that make for successful 

          24             schools:  Strong leadership, a safe and 

          25             orderly environment, accountability, a 




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           2             unified curriculum, and parental 

           3             involvement. 

           4                    These concepts weren't new then and 

           5             they are still found in every one of our 

           6             successful schools.  It is the 

           7             responsibility of all adults involved in the 

           8             education of children, to ensure that each 

           9             and every child receives a quality 

          10             education. 

          11                    I believe that each and every adult 

          12             in New York City must at least minimally 

          13             contribute to this conversation.  It is in 

          14             this way that all New Yorkers begin to 

          15             assume ownership of the New York City school 

          16             system.  For whether you are a parent, a 

          17             grandparent, a neighbor or a friend of a 

          18             youngster, there is much at stake for all of 

          19             us.  There is much to be gained here, but 

          20             there is even more to be lost. 

          21                    I thank you very much for allowing me 

          22             this opportunity to contribute to the 

          23             conversation. 

          24                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, we thank 

          25             you very, very much, Assemblywoman Millman.  




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           2             I know that I speak especially for Audrey 

           3             Pheffer and Peter Rivera, but I also know I 

           4             speak for all the members of the task force 

           5             in expressing to you our belief that 

           6             Brooklyn, in particular your communities, 

           7             have been very, very fortunate to have you 

           8             representing them, and as you stated in your 

           9             testimony, many of the issues that are being 

          10             discussed today, are going to be discussed 

          11             again by the Assemblymembers and Senators, 

          12             and your continued participation in that 

          13             discussion, as in the past, is a very 

          14             valuable thing to all of us.  Thank you.

          15                    MS. MILLMAN:   Thank you, Chairman.

          16                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.  

          17             Next I'd like to invite Councilmember David 

          18             Weprin, the Chair of the New York Council 

          19             Finance Committee, and then he will be 

          20             followed by Randi Weingarten, president of 

          21             UFT.  Good afternoon. 

          22                    MR. WEPRIN:   I think I made it under 

          23             the wire also, so I'll say good morning.  

          24             Distinguished Co-chairs, distinguished 

          25             members of this panel.  I thank you for the 




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           2             opportunity of coming before you today to 

           3             address the issue of parent and community 

           4             involvement in the New York City school 

           5             system. 

           6                    We are currently living in a time of 

           7             great expectations regarding the educational 

           8             system of our City.  The Mayor has gained 

           9             control of the schools and in doing so, has 

          10             raised the hopes of parents and citizens 

          11             alike that New York City schools will do 

          12             better and our children will excel. 

          13                    Yet, while we look forward to such 

          14             excellence in education, we are confronted 

          15             with the reality that the legislation that 

          16             brought the New York City school system 

          17             under the Mayor's control has also mandated 

          18             the disbanding of the community school 

          19             boards. 

          20                    The benefits of involvement by 

          21             parents and community school members in 

          22             supporting local schools as having an input 

          23             into shaping educational policy is not only 

          24             part of our civic fabric, but has been 

          25             well-documented in countless educational 




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           2             studies.  It is a mechanism that works.  

           3             Therefore, the challenge we face in 

           4             addressing the absence of such a governance 

           5             mechanism is not only how do we replace it, 

           6             but what format and responsibilities will be 

           7             delegated to these new boards? 

           8                    In reinstating an approach for parent 

           9             and community involvement, the New York City 

          10             Council Education Committee, as you 

          11             previously heard, has recommended several 

          12             vital factors that should be addressed.  

          13             These parent and community councils must be 

          14             locally based.  Members must be parents and 

          15             local community leaders appointed on a 

          16             fixed-term basis. 

          17                    They must be transparent in operation 

          18             and delegated meaningful responsibilities 

          19             related to the policies, staffing and 

          20             operations of our City's schools. 

          21                    In reestablishing a parent and 

          22             community school council, three overall 

          23             considerations should be viewed and 

          24             operationalized.  They're composition, 

          25             responsibility  and support. 




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           2                    It is essential that a format be 

           3             adopted for each of the parent and community 

           4             school councils and that a membership of 

           5             approximately nine people be established.  

           6             Councilmembers under the Council Plan would 

           7             appoint five members, with the remaining 

           8             four appointed by the borough president. 

           9                    It is crucial that a majority of 

          10             these councilmembers be parents of children 

          11             currently enrolled in the district's 

          12             schools. 

          13                    All such appointees would be limited 

          14             to a four-year term of service.  It is the 

          15             City Council's hope that the primary 

          16             function of these Parent and School 

          17             Council's will be to establish a functioning 

          18             and realistic system of accountability, 

          19             based upon the performance of the district, 

          20             as well as individual schools within the 

          21             district. 

          22                    To achieve this most vital function, 

          23             these councils should be empowered to set 

          24             broad district policy, conduct formal 

          25             evaluations of the superintendent on an 




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           2             annual basis, advise on superintendent 

           3             selection and/or termination.  In addition, 

           4             they are to review school performance, 

           5             district budgets on a periodic basis. 

           6                    It must be singled out that a major 

           7             responsibility of these councils should be 

           8             to raise parent concerns to the district 

           9             superintendent and hold them accountable for 

          10             prompt and effective responses.

          11                    All of the above will be reduced to 

          12             wishful thinking, unless these councils are 

          13             given support in order that they can operate 

          14             effectually.  Yet, a word of caution.  In 

          15             establishing a support system, 

          16             cost-effectiveness is a key operating 

          17             factor.  While we are aiming towards 

          18             effectiveness, we must avoid duplicating a 

          19             district bureaucracy that will only serve to 

          20             victimize the districts. 

          21                    Parent and Community School Councils 

          22             must be given adequate budgets that will 

          23             allow them to operate in an effective manner 

          24             that will not duplicate those services 

          25             already in operation and/or available to the 




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           2             councils.  Similarly, it is advisable that a 

           3             relationship be developed between these 

           4             councils and the borough presidents in order 

           5             that administrative costs become 

           6             cost-effective operations.  Such functions 

           7             as mailing and duplication can be done in 

           8             cooperation with the local schools. 

           9                    Ladies and gentlemen, great movements 

          10             are usually given a second chance to rebuild 

          11             themselves.  The chance we have been given 

          12             to rebuild our school system is of 

          13             monumental import.  It is one that if 

          14             supported, will give to our children an 

          15             opportunity to achieve and grow.  I urge 

          16             your strong support for these measures, and 

          17             I'd be happy to answer any questions.

          18                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

          19                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Councilman 

          20             Weprin, first of all, we're indebted to you 

          21             for testifying this morning.  You're a 

          22             distinguished member, an important member of 

          23             the City Council, and your views are 

          24             exceedingly important to us.  I also would 

          25             be remiss if I didn't at least make mention 




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           2             that you are part of a very proud tradition.  

           3             Your family has provided such wonderful 

           4             public service to the City.  Your brother in 

           5             the State Legislature and your father, who I 

           6             had the great pleasure and opportunity to 

           7             serve with, who was Speaker Of The Assembly, 

           8             Saul Weprin, so we expected much from you, 

           9             and as always, you have delivered, and we 

          10             thank you so much for your comments today.

          11                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    And I want to 

          12             add, your mother, who has served on so many 

          13             non-for-profit boards and added to the civic 

          14             life of Queens.

          15                    MR. WEPRIN:    Thank you.

          16                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We thank you 

          17             very much.

          18                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.  

          19             Randi Weingarten, president, United 

          20             Federation of Teachers.

          21                    MS. WEINGARTEN:   In one of my staff 

          22             members rush to get here, she left her 

          23             pocketbook in the cab, so I have a minor 

          24             crisis going on.  So sorry. 

          25                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Hopefully she 




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           2             got a receipt and she can identify the cab.

           3                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    If Carol comes 

           4             back, you'll see.  I said to Carol, I can do 

           5             this testimony alone.  Go help out. 

           6                    First off, thank you for this 

           7             opportunity.  I know you are on a strict 

           8             time table, and what I will do is, I really 

           9             have one major point to make, which I'll say 

          10             first, and then I'll say in my testimony 

          11             again, which is that whatever happens, 

          12             whatever happens, there must be parent voice 

          13             and parent avenues and access to schools. 

          14                    I think there is a lot of people who 

          15             are worried, given the Mayor's very, very 

          16             profound restructuring changes that he 

          17             unveiled yesterday, that parents will not be 

          18             a real part of the equation, and I think 

          19             that in the way in which the Education Panel 

          20             has been established and has worked, that 

          21             has given people a sense that parents are 

          22             really not a part of the equation, so that 

          23             whatever happens, and the only thing that I 

          24             wanted to do in terms of testifying today, 

          25             was put the UFT squarely on the side of 




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           2             ensuring that this is a system that serves 

           3             kids.  And the only way that this system is 

           4             going to serve kids effectively, is if we 

           5             have parents who are willing to take 

           6             responsibility for their children's 

           7             education.  But the quid pro quo for that is 

           8             to ensure that parents really have a real 

           9             access and a real voice and that schools are 

          10             really parent friendly. 

          11                    And more than that I will say, but 

          12             that is the UFT's position, regardless of 

          13             what the structure is, and that is what we 

          14             will measure the structure with in terms of 

          15             that analysis when it comes to whatever you 

          16             do in terms of your mandate. 

          17                    Now your mandate is hard, and God 

          18             only knows  -- sorry.  I know I'm not 

          19             supposed to invoke God  -- but God only 

          20             knows why all of you took on this mandate, 

          21             because you have a very, very hard function 

          22             and I want to thank both Co-Chairs for 

          23             taking this on, because this is really very 

          24             difficult. 

          25                    There were some of the community 




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           2             school boards that were wonderful, but few 

           3             will mourn in the passing of them, because 

           4             of what so many of them did.  While some 

           5             boards functioned as places where parents 

           6             had a reasonable chance, not just to air 

           7             their views, but to see their problems got 

           8             resolved, there were so many examples of 

           9             patronage and other types of things, that 

          10             people basically no longer look at them as a 

          11             viable solution. 

          12                    But the consolidation of power which 

          13             Mayor Bloomberg and Chancellor Klein has 

          14             proposed, I think has tremendous 

          15             possibilities, and as you know, we are 

          16             generally in support of the plan, but, we 

          17             also know, as Assemblyman Sanders said 

          18             yesterday, the devil is always in the 

          19             details, and the implementation of this is 

          20             going to be very hard and very bumpy and 

          21             very tough in lots of ways. 

          22                    These are the questions that we ask 

          23             in assessing the reorganizational plan.  

          24             Number one, what does this reorganizational 

          25             plan do to advance teaching and learning in 




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           2             the classrooms?  Number two, how are we 

           3             going to help more kids learn to read, to 

           4             write and to do math?  Number three, how 

           5             does this plan promote children's social 

           6             development and ensure that schools are safe 

           7             and secure? 

           8                    Number four, how does it take into 

           9             account parents' input and act on their 

          10             concerns?  Number five, how will all the 

          11             stakeholders work together in support of our 

          12             children's interest?  And number six, how do 

          13             we stem the torrent of polarization and buck 

          14             passing that exists in far too many places 

          15             right now? 

          16                    Every time we see a plan, those are 

          17             the questions that we ask these days, and 

          18             how does a restructuring support those 

          19             things?  And as I said before, and this may 

          20             be somewhat controversial, as promising as 

          21             was the hope for parental involvement 

          22             envisioned by the state legislature when it 

          23             changed the school governance law last year, 

          24             I don't believe that the Education Policy 

          25             Panel has fulfilled that promise. 




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           2                    A few parent voices, the borough 

           3             president's appointees were included in the 

           4             EPP's final incarnation, and that was good.  

           5             Yet, its proceedings are closed and 

           6             confidential, and its members, because the 

           7             old Board of Education was often a source of 

           8             rumor and intrigue, are even required to 

           9             keep its proceedings confidential. 

          10                    At the very least, the panel needs 

          11             more contact with parents, more contact with 

          12             the public and its proceedings have to be 

          13             more open and more inviting. 

          14                    I know it's a Hobson's choice to 

          15             trade back the headaches of the last few 

          16             years, and Terri Thomson probably knows this 

          17             better than anybody else on that panel, for 

          18             the alienation and powerlessness that 

          19             parents felt under the old pre-1969 school 

          20             governance structure, which decentralization 

          21             was then supposed to address.  And that's 

          22             why what you're trying to do and the balance 

          23             you're trying to do, this task force, is so 

          24             important. 

          25                    So while the exact final structure 




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           2             that you may recommend is going to be for 

           3             you to decide, and I am not going to try and 

           4             suggest one more structure, let me just give 

           5             you two or three more principals, and then I 

           6             will conclude. 

           7                    While final education decisions need 

           8             to be made by educators, there are two 

           9             guiding principals.  Number one, parents who 

          10             know their children's needs best, need a 

          11             connection to school and a voice in how 

          12             children learn.  And second, educators need 

          13             to hear from parents, and parents need to 

          14             hear from educators.  Whatever structure is 

          15             put into place, it needs to be a two-way 

          16             street, and there needs to be both joint 

          17             responsibility and joint respect. 

          18                    Everybody who knows schools that 

          19             work, know that they work because they 

          20             ensure parental access and they cement a 

          21             very positive relationship between parents 

          22             and teachers, and that positive, cemented 

          23             relationship is what is essential in 

          24             children's learning. 

          25                    The Mayor and the Chancellor proposed 




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           2             a model of 10 regional districts that would 

           3             each supervise networks of 10 to 12 local 

           4             and structural districts.  It calls for 

           5             parent coordinators.  We support the parent 

           6             coordinators.  We have a system of them in 

           7             some schools right now.  They work very 

           8             well, but they should be in all schools. 

           9                    I did not hear the Chancellor and 

          10             Deputy Mayor talk about the parent 

          11             engagement boards today, so I won't comment 

          12             on them.  I don't know what the specific 

          13             proposal is. 

          14                    The other possible models though 

          15             should be considered.  There was one that's 

          16             offered by the city's numerous Community 

          17             Planning Boards, which while advisory and 

          18             frequently under-funded, have mandated tasks 

          19             stipulated by the City Charter.  They hold 

          20             regular public meetings, and they play an 

          21             institutionalized ombudsman's role with 

          22             numerous city agencies. 

          23                    And I also think that the City 

          24             Council's proposal should not be dismissed 

          25             either.  They have a proposal to create 




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           2             parent and community school councils in 

           3             place of the current community school 

           4             boards, and they vest with them some 

           5             palpable responsibility. 

           6                    As I said before, the bottom line is 

           7             this, we have to attract parents into 

           8             schools.  We have to harness their 

           9             creativity.  We have to ensure that they are 

          10             real partners in the process of educating 

          11             children, and we have to make sure this is 

          12             not simply access.  That there has to be 

          13             responsibility as well. 

          14                    My members are yearning for it.  They 

          15             need parental involvement.  They always talk 

          16             to me in every school visit I go to about 

          17             needing parents to help them with that task. 

          18                    Kids are our joint responsibility and 

          19             we need to ensure that they are a joint 

          20             responsibility.  The union will do its part.  

          21             We have already.  We have Dial-A-Teacher.  

          22             We do with parents who are sitting on the 

          23             stage right now, a parent conference that I 

          24             think last year attractive 3,500 parents.  

          25             We publish a parent newsletter.  We hold 




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           2             parent workshops, but the structure and the 

           3             system has to be more systemic.  These are 

           4             still all ad hoc. 

           5                    And let me say one last thing in 

           6             closing.  We've come a long way towards 

           7             ensuring a school system that insists on 

           8             high standards for every child, but to get 

           9             to those standards, we need a strategy.  We 

          10             desperately need a strategy that engages the 

          11             public in general.  That has the public 

          12             support, the public education system and 

          13             engages the parents in particularly. 

          14                    We need a strategy that avoids blame 

          15             mongering or finger pointing, because there 

          16             really is a true common enemy, and that is 

          17             illiteracy and innumeracy, and winning the 

          18             fight against illiteracy and innumeracy, 

          19             particularly in this period of fiscal crisis 

          20             where we know that kids are not going to get 

          21             the supports and services that they need, 

          22             that is our common enemy.  We need parents, 

          23             every single teacher knows that, and we are 

          24             encouraged by the fact that the legislature 

          25             put together this committee to try to figure 




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           2             out what should happen to replace the 

           3             community school boards.  Thank you very 

           4             much.

           5                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We thank you 

           6             very much, Randi Weingarten.  I think we may 

           7             have one or two brief questions.  Ms. Kee.

           8                    MS. KEE:   Randi, thank you for your 

           9             testimony and the work on behalf of the 

          10             80,000 teachers in this city.  I think that 

          11             many of us here are the products of parents 

          12             who cared and teachers who cared too.  So we 

          13             thank you.  Now so many of the task force 

          14             members had questions about the parent 

          15             coordinator.  Did you think it should be 

          16             someone appointed by the principal, someone 

          17             who is a teacher, what is your view on this?

          18                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    Right now, there 

          19             are parent coordinators in about  -- I don't 

          20             know.  I just met with about 50 of them 

          21             about four months ago, five months ago.  For 

          22             reasons that frankly I don't even know, 

          23             they're pedagogues and we happen to 

          24             represent them.  They have a very different 

          25             kind of schedule than other pedagogues, and 




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           2             in the schools that they're in, they were, 

           3             my understanding is that they have been 

           4             appointed, in consultation with the school 

           5             leadership teams, by principals. 

           6                    That's my understanding, but more 

           7             important than that, let me just tell you 

           8             about the nature of the meetings I've had 

           9             with them.  They see their role as really 

          10             cementing the relationship between parents 

          11             and schools, and they see themselves as 

          12             ombudsmen or ombudspeople I guess I should 

          13             say, and they see that, you know, this role 

          14             of both conflict resolver, mediator, access 

          15             provider, information provider, and you 

          16             know, kind of responsibility charger is what 

          17             they see as their role, and the ones who are 

          18             their right now, are terrific individuals.  

          19             And I think the schools that have them, have 

          20             found them to be very, very useful. 

          21                    So that's why based upon that 

          22             experience, we would support having a parent 

          23             coordinator in each school.  Now obviously, 

          24             there's an issue about financing and there's 

          25             an issue about you can't take from one 




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           2             source and give to another.  What will 

           3             happen if it means increasing class size.  

           4             Parents and my members would be opposed to 

           5             that, but if there is in this kind of 

           6             process of redeployment, a way of doing some 

           7             things, it would be a very useful -- at 

           8             least at the schools that have them right 

           9             now  -- have experienced that it's very, 

          10             very useful.

          11                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. DeLeon.

          12                    MR. DELEON:    Thank you for 

          13             appearing.  Ms. Weingarten, presently a 

          14             member of the UFT sits on the local 

          15             leadership team.  Under the proposed 

          16             structures, do you see a UFT member sitting 

          17             on those structures, and if so, what would 

          18             be their function?

          19                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    Well, look, I'm 

          20             glad you raised the question.  I was 

          21             thinking about raising it in the testimony 

          22             and I decided not to, but let me tell you 

          23             what I find important about the core group 

          24             of people sitting on the school leadership 

          25             teams.  The union and our members have lots 




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           2             of different ways and access to policy 

           3             makers.  That's not what's important about 

           4             it. 

           5                    What's really important about it and 

           6             what we've seen with the school leadership 

           7             teams is that it allows people to walk in 

           8             each other's shoes.  When you have the 

           9             chapter leader, the school PA president or 

          10             the school liaison and you have parents and 

          11             then you also have the principal, but you 

          12             have the core members of the team there, 

          13             what it does, if they're working well 

          14             together, is that they walk in each other's 

          15             shoes, and they understand each other's 

          16             issues and each other's challenges and each 

          17             other's problems. 

          18                    If you do not do that, all you do is 

          19             create a structure that creates more blame, 

          20             more finger pointing.  And what we've seen 

          21             with the school leadership teams that work 

          22             and what we saw all of last year is that we 

          23             have been working together more than ever 

          24             before with parents, because the school 

          25             leadership teams in schools that work, let 




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           2             people walk in each other's shoes.  And 

           3             that's why I think it's very important to 

           4             have -- that both  -- to have the 

           5             stakeholders in decision-making venues 

           6             altogether, because it forces them to work 

           7             together. 

           8                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Brief follow up.

           9                    MR. DELEON:    So if I understand 

          10             you, you feel that labor should play their 

          11             own role in the education of children?

          12                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    Let me put it 

          13             this way, my union, and as long as I'm here, 

          14             and probably well after I'm here, is going 

          15             to play a role in the education of children, 

          16             period.  The end.  But what I'm saying is 

          17             that on the school level and on the district 

          18             level, if we don't want to go back to having 

          19             different sides that keep fighting with each 

          20             other instead of being aligned in interest 

          21             working together in support of children's 

          22             needs, then you create separate places where 

          23             they play and where they work. 

          24                    If you want them to work together, 

          25             then you have to create a structure where 




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           2             they act and play well with each other, and 

           3             that's what the school leadership teams did, 

           4             and it has helped.  Not in every school.  

           5             There's places where, you know, there's 

           6             still that tremendous friction, but there's 

           7             lots and lots of places where there used to 

           8             be a lot of friction, where people really 

           9             tried to figure out not only each other's 

          10             needs, but each other's challenges, but how 

          11             to work together and how to respect each 

          12             other. 

          13                    That's what I liked about the school 

          14             leadership teams, and that's in places 

          15             that -- and I think I see a lot of other 

          16             people shaking their head  -- in places that 

          17             they worked that worked well.  That's why 

          18             you have the different stakeholders 

          19             together.  Does it make it unruly sometimes?  

          20             Yes.  Does it create sometimes an inability 

          21             to move as quickly as you might want to?  

          22             Yes.  But democracy is a pretty unruly and 

          23             inefficient process.

          24                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Clayton.

          25                    MR. CLAYTON:    Thank you, Randi, 




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           2             for being here today.  I have two questions.  

           3             First I'd like to say, your observation of 

           4             school leadership teams was welcome and well 

           5             put, because we haven't heard your scenario 

           6             of walking in each other's shoes, and I 

           7             think that was a good spin. 

           8                    Now yesterday in the Mayor's speech, 

           9             he said that he's going to have a 

          10             standardized curriculum throughout the 

          11             system.  Now for parents, you know, we 

          12             welcome that, because that way if parents 

          13             have a child, and they're moving to another 

          14             borough now, they won't miss a beat in their 

          15             lesson plan.  They'll just be right on the 

          16             mark.  Will this be any problem for the 

          17             teachers union?  Would you all have any 

          18             problem standardizing the math and reading 

          19             curriculum?

          20                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    There is -- I did 

          21             not set him up to ask this question.  Those 

          22             of you who know me and who were at our 

          23             spring conference three years ago, know that 

          24             we devoted from three years ago onward over 

          25             $2,000,000 to create a standards-based 




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           2             unified, aligned curriculum in literacy and 

           3             now we're almost completing it in math. 

           4                    There are lots and lots of my members 

           5             who say we know how to teach.  Let us just 

           6             do our own thing.  And in many instances, 

           7             they do a fabulous job, and it's terrific to 

           8             let them do their own thing. 

           9                    45 percent of the teachers in the 

          10             City of New York these days have five or 

          11             fewer years of service, and most of them 

          12             have said in one way or the other, it is 

          13             fundamentally unfair to both them and their 

          14             students to put them into a classroom, to 

          15             say teach to the higher standards and to not 

          16             give them a road map to do that. 

          17                    There will be bumps in the road in 

          18             terms of trying to figure out what a unified 

          19             curriculum looks like.  When people 

          20             immediately call it cookie cutter, you know 

          21             they're opposed to it. 

          22                    A unified curriculum is not a script 

          23             that says today you say hello, children and 

          24             this is what you teach, and the next moment 

          25             you teach this, and the next moment you 




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           2             teach this.  A unified curriculum says that 

           3             you generally have the same kind of scopes 

           4             and sequences.  You generally know that in 

           5             one district you're going to basically teach 

           6             in third grade something similar to what you 

           7             teach in another district. 

           8                    It is fundamentally unfair to both 

           9             kids and to teachers, kids in particular, to 

          10             say if you happen to move from Bed Stuy to 

          11             another area in the city, you're going to be 

          12             learning something totally different.  This 

          13             is one unified school system, and it should 

          14             have one basic unified curriculum. 

          15                    That doesn't mean standardization, 

          16             but it does mean that kids in reading and 

          17             mathematics should basically be taught the 

          18             same thing in Bay Ridge and Bed Stuy.  It's 

          19             not fair to them to do that. 

          20                    I liked what the Mayor and Chancellor 

          21             did by saying that the schools that are high 

          22             performing can do their own thing.  That is 

          23             a good caret, but at the same time, we 

          24             really have to create some fairness both to 

          25             support teachers in terms of curriculum that 




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           2             they're teaching, and to also say to parents 

           3             and to kids that particularly in elementary 

           4             schools, in third grade, if you're told that 

           5             you're going to learn math and certain kinds 

           6             of math concepts, it's not going to be 

           7             different in one district from another.

           8                    MR. CLAYTON:    I just have one more 

           9             brief question going to the reason why we're 

          10             here, the alternative to the community 

          11             school boards.  Do you feel that these 

          12             alternatives to the community school board, 

          13             which, you know, we're hearing a lot from 

          14             parents that they should make the majority 

          15             of parents, do you feel that their role 

          16             should be advisory or should they have a 

          17             real articulated, decision-making 

          18             responsibility?

          19                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    The more one 

          20             weighs into this particular issue -- I 

          21             remember in the conversation on what the 

          22             Education Panel should look like.  Would it 

          23             be real or would it be advisory, and 

          24             ultimately, no one ended up using those 

          25             words at all. 




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           2                    Ultimately, a panel of people who 

           3             have a genuine role in a school are going to 

           4             have real influence in the school, 

           5             regardless of what is prescribed in the law.  

           6             The function I think is to try to create a 

           7             real vehicle and a genuine vehicle for both 

           8             voice and access and a way of having that 

           9             kind of two-way street, because as I said 

          10             before, the teachers are desperate to have 

          11             parents engaged. 

          12                    Teachers often say to me I call 

          13             somebody at home and I can't get anybody.  

          14             And so, we need to create that kind of 

          15             two-way structure and vehicle.  I think the 

          16             moment that people engage in the discussion 

          17             about is this advisory or is this real, as 

          18             opposed to just creating a voice, then we 

          19             get right back into should it be a square 

          20             table or round table. 

          21                    Access, voice, responsibility, 

          22             ensuring a school is parent friendly, and 

          23             ensuring that parents have a real role in 

          24             kid's education is I think the charge.  The 

          25             issue about whether parents have a role in 




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           2             the selection of principals.  Whether they 

           3             have a role in the selection of 

           4             superintendents.  Those are the kinds of 

           5             things that people have made choices about 

           6             over years. 

           7                    We've had C-30.  We've had C-37.  

           8             We've had other incarnations of it.  The 

           9             bottom line is this, if there's respect, 

          10             then there's a real voice and a real access 

          11             and a real role.  If there's not respect for 

          12             this function, then it doesn't matter what 

          13             you prescribe in law, it ain't going to 

          14             happen.

          15                    MR. CLAYTON:    Thank you.

          16                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Thomson, 

          17             then Ms. Brown, and then I think we will be 

          18             moving on.

          19                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Randi, I agree 

          20             with you on the relationship between the 

          21             teacher and the parent.  While, you know, 

          22             I've heard from many teachers and have so 

          23             many friends who are teachers who tell me 

          24             just give me a parent involved with the 

          25             child and we can turn it around. 




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           2                    We also have heard from parents 

           3             across the city who say they want to hear 

           4             from the teacher how they can help their 

           5             child at home.  They want information.  They 

           6             want to hear when their child does something 

           7             good.  They want that communication to be 

           8             really solid, and if we do that, we can move 

           9             mountains I think.  I want to talk a little 

          10             bit about the school leadership teams.  You 

          11             talked about a model we all dream of.  A 

          12             high-functioning school leadership team.  

          13             Unfortunately, what we've heard across the 

          14             city is that's not  -- at least that's not 

          15             the typical model that we've heard of. 

          16                    What we do here is that parents don't 

          17             really feel that they're at the table.  That 

          18             they're overwhelmed by the educators, 

          19             because they maybe don't have the knowledge 

          20             and the lingo and feel not competent, and 

          21             often the educators don't help.  You know, 

          22             it's sort of the powerful are the educators 

          23             and the parents are not. 

          24                    What can we do to change that so that 

          25             we get to the model you talked about of the 




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           2             school leadership team with a real 

           3             collaboration and team work and people 

           4             working together, any ideas?

           5                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    You know, this is 

           6             what we did when we created the parent 

           7             conference, and in some ways, on a macro 

           8             level, the union did it with the 

           9             Chancellor's Parent Advisory Committee.  

          10             Initially -- and we did it with Robin and 

          11             with Ernie and with others  -- initially, 

          12             there's always distrust.  There's always a 

          13             sense of, you know, you're in it for 

          14             yourself, we're in it for ourselves.  

          15             Nobody's thinking about my needs.  Well, 

          16             you're only thinking about your needs.  You 

          17             know, that kind of thing happens in every 

          18             first meeting I walk into everywhere. 

          19                    And when I said the term walk in each 

          20             other's shoes, often, what happened with us 

          21             was that we just -- we developed a 

          22             relationship with the Chancellor's Parent 

          23             Advisory Committee and we said  -- and I 

          24             know Elizabeth was here too.  And there's 

          25             lots of other people here too -- I came to 




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           2             some meetings.  I met with the steering 

           3             committee.  I listened to people's concerns.  

           4             I tried to react on some of them.  And 

           5             parents listened to our concerns. 

           6                    Tried to react on some of them, and 

           7             there was no structure here.  We didn't have 

           8             a rule.  We didn't have a resolution that 

           9             said this is something that we have to do. 

          10             Everyone just realized that it was in our, 

          11             most importantly the children's, best 

          12             interest for us to do this. 

          13                    So the model that came out was real 

          14             respect and real accountability.  That went 

          15             in a two-way street.  Where I felt that I 

          16             should be accountable to parents and where 

          17             parents saw that I was respecting -- I as 

          18             the union president was respecting their 

          19             needs enough, that they felt much more open 

          20             to the union.  And then what ultimately 

          21             happened was there was no place that parents 

          22             had a conference each year.  UPA did some of 

          23             it, but there was no other real city-wide 

          24             parent conference. 

          25                    And so the UFT went and asked the 




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           2             school system for some money.  Some years we 

           3             got it.  Some years we didn't.  Even the 

           4             years we didn't get it, the union, my 

           5             members dues money, subsidized the parents 

           6             conference. 

           7                    At this point, the conference, which 

           8             is a very kind of school-based conference, 

           9             gets more people than we can handle.  The 

          10             conference seminars are all parent driven.  

          11             Lots of teachers go now.  Lots of parents go 

          12             now.  But again, it's about what are the 

          13             needs?  What are the challenges?  What is 

          14             the focus?  Is the focus on power?  Is the 

          15             focus on children? 

          16                    The focus is always on children, and 

          17             then we build from that.  And that's how 

          18             we've modeled it in terms of the 

          19             relationship these days between kind of some 

          20             of the central parent groups of the city and 

          21             the UFT.  And that's the way it's worked for 

          22             us.  That's why we know that if you create a 

          23             structure and some support, it will work 

          24             more, than creating a prescribed group of 

          25             duties and responsibilities, but thankfully, 




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           2             that is your function and not mine.

           3                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Robin Brown.

           4                    MS. BROWN:   I just like to say 

           5             thanks.  I think one of the  -- with us 

           6             developing this relationship, although we've 

           7             not agreed on all of the issues --

           8                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    Correct.

           9                    MS. BROWN:    And we did come to 

          10             some sort of conclusion that we will agree 

          11             to disagree, and it's that mutual respect.  

          12             Just in terms of talking to your members, 

          13             and I should have asked this same question 

          14             of the Chancellor while he was here, what do 

          15             they perceive to be a good school, a 

          16             successful school, aside from the numbers 

          17             and how children do on standardized tests?

          18                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    Well, I totally 

          19             agree with Robin's comments in the paper, 

          20             that there is too much focus on testing 

          21             testing testing in the school system.  And I 

          22             know that -- I know that when people hear me 

          23             support a unified common curriculum, their 

          24             fear is that it's a totally testing 

          25             curriculum and test-based curriculum, and 




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           2             that's not what we're talking about at all.  

           3             And I would invite people to look at what 

           4             the Teacher Center put together in terms of 

           5             the literacy curriculum resource guides.  

           6             It's very, very hard to do a common, unified 

           7             curriculum that is aligned with standards, 

           8             but that also creates enough discretion for 

           9             teachers to be able to teach in a way that's 

          10             configured and tailored to the individual 

          11             needs of students. 

          12                    It's very hard.  It took us two years 

          13             to figure out how to do the literacy one.  

          14             If I knew how hard it was, I may not have 

          15             suggested it and invested that many 

          16             resources, but once we started, we were 

          17             going to continue. 

          18                    Having said that, it's -- you know, 

          19             there's a lot of pressure -- and I hope I'm 

          20             answering Robin's question -- there's a lot 

          21             of pressures on schools right now, and in 

          22             some ways, the No Child Left Behind Law did 

          23             something very  -- well, let me just say 

          24             what it did. 

          25                    It basically shifted all of the 




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           2             responsibility for what happens in this 

           3             economy and what happens socially and what 

           4             happens to children, it shifted all that 

           5             responsibility onto kids and onto the 

           6             schools by saying that the schools are 

           7             totally and completely responsible through 

           8             the measure of simply test scores.  And that 

           9             is fundamentally unfair.  It's an unfair 

          10             burden on the schools.  It's unfair to the 

          11             kids.  It's unfair to the current school 

          12             teachers and to the current principals.  And 

          13             part of what we need to do is we need to 

          14             try -- and I think that's why the Mayor said 

          15             it's all of our responsibility yesterday -- 

          16             we need to try to figure out a better` 

          17             balance, because what will immediately 

          18             happen and what we've seen happen in our 

          19             schools now, is that in certain places where 

          20             people are confident enough that what they 

          21             teach will be aligned enough to standards so 

          22             they don't do endless test preparation, but 

          23             in so many other places, what people do is 

          24             that they're not that competent or that 

          25             they're scared of all the ramifications, and 




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           2             so you see constant test preparation instead 

           3             of other things. 

           4                    I see it in the elementary schools in 

           5             particular.  I started talking about how we 

           6             have to get the crayons back into early 

           7             childhood.  You know, my members clap when I 

           8             use that line too, but my point is, what 

           9             happens in early childhood.  In early 

          10             childhood, when kids use crayons, when they 

          11             draw, when they imagine, when they use clay, 

          12             when they share scissors or clay or 

          13             whatever, you're creating tremendous social 

          14             development skills for kids. 

          15                    When you don't have that and when 

          16             there's such a focus  -- and I believe in 

          17             high standards and I believe in the state's 

          18             standards, and I've been one of the people, 

          19             even though my members have gone through 

          20             torture, I believe in this, but we have to 

          21             create enough of a balance, because what's 

          22             starting to happen in some elementary 

          23             schools is there's such a relentless fear 

          24             about the tests, that four and five year 

          25             olds are spending all their time focused on 




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           2             writing and on reading, rather than on 

           3             social development and on these other 

           4             things. 

           5                    And so I think that balance and 

           6             trying to get that balance back becomes very 

           7             important.  If the public believes that the 

           8             public school system can credibly help teach 

           9             all kids to high standards, then we will 

          10             have the space to get that back.  If the 

          11             public doesn't believe that, then we will 

          12             not.  That's one of the reasons why I am so 

          13             supportive of Michael Bloomberg putting 

          14             himself out there to say, I'm taking 

          15             responsibility.  Because the only way the 

          16             public will perceive and will have -- and 

          17             the public school system will have the 

          18             credibility to be believed in, is if people 

          19             like the Mayor take that kind of 

          20             responsibility.

          21                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Last question is 

          22             Assemblyman Rivera.

          23                    MR. RIVERA:   Good afternoon, Randi.  

          24             Students who have parents with limited 

          25             English skills can pose a tremendous problem 




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           2             to getting the parents engaged in the 

           3             education of that child.  I don't know if 

           4             the UFT has ever looked at that issue and I 

           5             don't know if you can answer the question in 

           6             light of our mandate, and our mandate is how 

           7             do we create a system that fosters a 

           8             parental involvement and parental 

           9             participation, do you have an approach to 

          10             this problem?

          11                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    We have weighed 

          12             in to some extent on the issue of how you 

          13             successfully do bilingual education in the 

          14             city, but the question that you're asking 

          15             now, let me try to downsize the question 

          16             instead of weighting into that debate right 

          17             now, because I want to think a little bit 

          18             more what our position should be on that.

          19                    So let me just say I spent a lot of 

          20             time with the Hispanic Federation and with 

          21             others in terms of, how can we, when 

          22             language is a barrier, how can we breakdown 

          23             those obstacles?  And in some ways, parent 

          24             coordinators may be very effective here, 

          25             because we're not going to breakdown those 




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           2             barriers if people can't communicate with 

           3             each other, and if you have strictly English 

           4             speaking teachers or administrators or a 

           5             secretary in a school, and you have a parent 

           6             who is not predominantly English speaking, 

           7             then it's going to be very hard for the 

           8             parent to feel like the school is friendly 

           9             or has some access. 

          10                    And so this issue about how we deal 

          11             with language and how we try to breakdown 

          12             language barriers and how the school takes 

          13             some responsibility for that, I think is 

          14             important. 

          15                    As I said, a parent coordinator, 

          16             particularly a bilingual parent coordinator, 

          17             may help serve that purpose, but there are 

          18             other things to do.  It's a problem that 

          19             can't be shunted away.  It's a problem that 

          20             has to be dealt with.

          21                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, Randi 

          22             Weingarten, at the risk of stating the 

          23             obvious, you are one of those people who are 

          24             very, very important to the City of New York 

          25             and to the public school system.  When all 




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           2             is said and done, all of this dialogue, all 

           3             of this discussion boils down really to one 

           4             simple truth, is there teaching and learning 

           5             going on in the classroom, and your members, 

           6             your dedicated teachers, many of whom work 

           7             with students under very unfavorable 

           8             conditions, are trying mightily to make this 

           9             system work.  So we can't thank you enough 

          10             on behalf of ourselves, and I hope you will 

          11             communicate this to each and every one of 

          12             your teachers personally, but whatever way 

          13             you do communicate, please let them know how 

          14             much we value what they do and how 

          15             appreciative we are for your spending the 

          16             time with us today.

          17                    MS. WEINGARTEN:    Thank you.  They 

          18             need that cheerleading.  So I thank you 

          19             very, very much.

          20                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:   Next we have 

          21             David Sealey, College of Staten Island.

          22                    MR. SEALEY:    Good morning or 

          23             afternoon I guess it's gotten to be.  My 

          24             name is David Sealey, I'm a professor of 

          25             education at the College of Staten Island 




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           2             and the City University Graduate Center.  

           3             Before that I was director of the Public 

           4             Education Association.  Director of Mayor 

           5             Lindsey's Office of Education liaison, and  

           6             Assistant US Commissioner of Education under 

           7             the Johnson Administration. 

           8                    The focus of this task force is two 

           9             things, what should replace the community 

          10             school boards and how can parent involvement 

          11             be enhanced.  It just happens that I've had 

          12             40 years of experience writing and research 

          13             in those very fields -- 

          14                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Excuse me, 

          15             Mr. Sealey, would you pardon the 

          16             interruption for just a moment.  Let me just 

          17             implore people who are leaving or moving 

          18             around to please do it as quietly as you 

          19             can.  The sound really resinates up here, 

          20             and it's very difficult for us and I'm sure 

          21             you, to hear the important testimony of the 

          22             witnesses.  So if you need to move around, 

          23             please do it quietly.  If you have any 

          24             conversations, please take it to the back of 

          25             the room.  We thank you.




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           2                    AUDIENCE MEMBER:   Excuse me, Mr. 

           3             Sanders, quick question.  A lot of people 

           4             are just wondering, was he added in or is he 

           5             a part of the protocol that you're following 

           6             on this list?

           7                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    There was a 

           8             mistake.

           9                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Let me be clear 

          10             for everyone.  There is a list of people who 

          11             are testifying.  There are some people who 

          12             were inadvertently left off the list who had 

          13             pre-registered, and there are times that we 

          14             also have to jump around a little bit within 

          15             the list to try to make the day work as best 

          16             as we can.  We certainly ask your indulgence 

          17             for inconvenience.  We try to keep to the 

          18             list as best as we can, but at times we have 

          19             to move around on that list.  And we'll try 

          20             to accommodate people as best as we can 

          21             today.

          22                    MR. SEALEY:     In any case, what my 

          23             main advice to you, I'm not going to be able 

          24             to read my whole testimony, I had to revise 

          25             it after hearing the Mayor's speech 




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           2             yesterday, reading it and studying it, and I 

           3             was very excited by it.  I agreed with most 

           4             of it.  Questions for some of it, but my 

           5             main advice from all this is that the two 

           6             questions you're facing must not be you 

           7             looked at in isolation. 

           8                    And I'm sure from all the discussion,  

           9             you understand that.  They should be  -- but 

          10             my more specific suggestion is really try 

          11             very hard to resolve them as best you can 

          12             within the revisions that the Chancellor and 

          13             the Mayor are trying to make, because what I 

          14             heard him say yesterday was a very exciting 

          15             business.  I don't agree with all of it, but 

          16             he made clear that what we need is a whole 

          17             new system. 

          18                    He laid out yesterday what he called 

          19             some new steps or few steps, crucial steps 

          20             on the road toward creating that system.  

          21             Nothing like this has ever been tried in New 

          22             York City before.  I've been here almost 40 

          23             years.  It isn't the first time that I've 

          24             seen a Chancellor and Mayor get together in 

          25             this way and undertake not just to run the 




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           2             school system, but to massively re-design 

           3             it.  That is what some of you know, for many 

           4             years, I have been arguing for and I think 

           5             they're intending to do it. 

           6                    It will, however, be a colossal 

           7             challenge.  I don't know if he knows how 

           8             difficult it's going to be.  I know he knows 

           9             it's difficult, but from all our studies 

          10             from around the country, that anything 

          11             approaching this, it's extremely difficult.  

          12             The question is, how can we all support it? 

          13                    And one of the ways that I think's 

          14             particularly important particularly after 

          15             hearing a lot of discussion this morning is 

          16             this, we have to find a way to solve our 

          17             problems, not just by trying to figure out 

          18             how to fix them within the existing system, 

          19             but how a new system can be designed so that 

          20             it can resolve them.  That's a very 

          21             different process. 

          22                    I heard a lot of people say this 

          23             won't work, that won't work to the Mayor's 

          24             suggestions, because look, it hasn't worked 

          25             before.  Nothing like what the Mayor is 




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           2             proposing has never been tried before.  

           3             There has never been a whole system 

           4             re-designed in the past.  I think if people 

           5             concentrate on redesigning a system, we'll 

           6             find a lot of their problems will look very 

           7             different. 

           8                    I'll just skip over and say one of 

           9             the important priorities of any new 

          10             structure is therefore to change this 

          11             culture that has been apart.  That's mainly 

          12             what has been holding us up from the changes 

          13             of school leadership teams.  It's not that 

          14             they have haven't been mandated, but as 

          15             Randi Weingarten said, I don't always agree 

          16             with the UFT, but I think she was on target 

          17             with many things she said this morning, and 

          18             one of them is whatever you guys put in the 

          19             legislation, won't matter a hill of beans if 

          20             we can't develop the spirit and respect and 

          21             mutual respect, and I think that requires a 

          22             different culture, not just a different 

          23             structure, but a whole different culture, 

          24             and the structures that has to be set up is 

          25             to create that.




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           2                    The individual school, as the 

           3             Chancellor has clearly defined and the Mayor 

           4             has defined, they have identified, it's the 

           5             individual school that's going to make the 

           6             difference.  The Chancellor has a little 

           7             phrase that most people pass off as 

           8             rhetoric.  I hear him say many times, "What 

           9             we need to do is create not a great school 

          10             system, but a system of great schools," and 

          11             that was a phrase used by Theodore Seizer 

          12             about 15 years ago.  I knew what he meant.  

          13             He knew what I meant by what I was writing.  

          14             It calls for a radical approach to these 

          15             systems, and particularly the big ones, 

          16             because it means that all of the structures 

          17             and people above the school level have to be 

          18             concentrated on how to make that school and 

          19             support that school, not on how to run it 

          20             from some higher level. 

          21                    Many people are worried that because 

          22             of the tight chain of command that he laid 

          23             out, the Mayor laid out yesterday, that 

          24             means everything's going to be 

          25             re-centralized. 




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           2                    I can't tell you what is in the 

           3             Mayor's heart or mind.  I had a long talk 

           4             with the Chancellor here a week or so ago.  

           5             I am convinced that he knows very well, 

           6             there is no way the system can be managed 

           7             from the Tweed Courthouse or even from that 

           8             matter, from a regional superintendent's 

           9             office or from a district superintendent's 

          10             office. 

          11                    I think what he's aiming at or at 

          12             least I'll say what I think is in the model 

          13             that he seems to be referring to, that's 

          14             been developed in the last 20 or so years 

          15             for restructuring our public education 

          16             system, is making schools as much as 

          17             possible self-managing.  As much as possible 

          18             self-managing. 

          19                    Yes, within standards and within 

          20             policies that are set from above.  Not only 

          21             from the Mayor, but even from the state, and 

          22             the State Department of Education and the 

          23             Board of Regents, and when all those are 

          24             said, and they should be as minimal as 

          25             possible, you need some  -- it has to be 




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           2             worked out politically, what are the things 

           3             that have to be set and required of schools, 

           4             but then you need much more autonomous 

           5             schools that are self-managing. 

           6                    That's why the Chancellor is putting 

           7             such emphasis on getting a whole new breed 

           8             of leadership at the school level.  We have 

           9             some principals who by instinct and luck 

          10             we've gotten who understand this and try to 

          11             function that way.  They are almost 

          12             invariably blocked and hindered by the 

          13             existing structure above them.

          14                    The whole idea that I understand the 

          15             Chancellor's talking about is changing that 

          16             radically, so that instead of hindering 

          17             strong principals and schools and school 

          18             leadership teams, you are getting out of the 

          19             way of that and supporting that. 

          20                    That's basically what I have to say.  

          21             So I'm getting a sign to shut up, and I'd be 

          22             glad to answer any questions, if you have 

          23             any.  I'd say this is something I've been 

          24             watching and participating in since I came 

          25             to the city in 1967. 




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           2                    It has been pretty discouraging 

           3             because an awful lot of brains and an awful 

           4             lot of good will and effort has gone into 

           5             making changes, and I've seen virtually all 

           6             of it fail.  Not in individual cases.  There 

           7             have been some wonderful things done, but 

           8             the idea of getting this system really 

           9             working basically has not happened.  It was 

          10             not done by that hasty job that you guys or 

          11             your predecessors did in 1967.  I call that 

          12             a bastardized system.  Soon after it came up 

          13             I called it a bastardized system full of 

          14             confusion without accountability and so 

          15             forth. 

          16                    It was never put together properly 

          17             and it never has been able to work, and I 

          18             think now we have the opportunity for taking 

          19             all that experience, rebuilding not just a 

          20             system of schools, but an educational system 

          21             which recognizes, as so many people have 

          22             said it doesn't.  It can't be done by just 

          23             the schools.  We have to find a way of 

          24             getting the families, the communities, other 

          25             city agencies, other non-city agencies, all 




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           2             working in an entirely new way.  Not 

           3             absolutely entirely  -- it's sometimes done 

           4             here and there by really creative 

           5             principals, but by in large the system 

           6             wasn't set up to work as a partnership and a 

           7             collaboration.  That's what we have to shift 

           8             over to.

           9                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    I just want to 

          10             say, we look forward to reading your 

          11             testimony and also, if you have any other 

          12             writings that you think would be 

          13             particularly useful to us.

          14                    MR. SEALEY:   Yes, I have, 

          15             unfortunately, many more than you'll ever 

          16             have the chance to read.

          17                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    We have a 

          18             short amount of time.

          19                    MR. SEALEY:    I'll try to pick out 

          20             the ones that are most useful to you.  I'll 

          21             tell you one of the most useful things I'm 

          22             doing right now.  The only other 

          23             jurisdiction in the country that has 

          24             undertaken anything like this in terms of a 

          25             mandated from the top re-design of the whole 




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           2             system is the State of Kentucky.  People in 

           3             New York, when I talk about this say, "What 

           4             can you learn from those hicks?"  I want to 

           5             tell you, I've been out there -- I've gone 

           6             out there -- I've made two trips.  I've 

           7             studied it greatly.  But they've not by any 

           8             means solved their problem, but that was a 

           9             case in which the Governor, the major 

          10             legislator and the Supreme Court of the 

          11             State of Kentucky declared the entire public 

          12             school system unconstitutional, mandated a 

          13             new system.  That's what they called it, and 

          14             a new system was designed.  It's still not 

          15             implemented to some extent. 

          16                    Well, I mean, it's very tough to 

          17             bring in a whole new system, but at least 

          18             the politicians were able to get their act 

          19             together and say that's what we need.  

          20             That's never happened in New York City and 

          21             New York State.  That is what I hope you all 

          22             can bring about, is a unity of purpose 

          23             between the Mayor and the legislature and 

          24             the leaders. 

          25                    I hope from what I hear from Randi 




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           2             Weingarten, I fought with UFT very 

           3             strenuously a lot of the time I was with the 

           4             Public Education Association.  I think this 

           5             union, at least its top leaders and its 

           6             members  -- I work with the teachers all the 

           7             time.  They're my main constituents.  They 

           8             know the system isn't working.  They are 

           9             very discouraged.  They are very 

          10             demoralized.  When they get the idea that 

          11             there could be a new system, they get very 

          12             enthusiastic.  They are looking for 

          13             leadership from the politicians, frankly, to 

          14             finally wise up to that, and I think that's 

          15             what's happening, so I'm pretty encouraged.

          16                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Sealey, we 

          17             so much appreciate your being with us today.  

          18             Your experience and knowledge reaching back 

          19             to both the Lindsey and the Johnson 

          20             administrations gives us that kind of breath 

          21             of time and understanding, and we will 

          22             certainly be careful to read the information 

          23             that you submitted.  We thank you for being 

          24             here today.

          25                    MR. SEALEY:    Thank you.




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           2                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Catherine 

           3             Albisa, Right to Education Project 

           4             Coordinator, the Center for Economic and 

           5             Social Rights.  I want to let you know that 

           6             after that, we'll call Blanca Colon and Juan 

           7             Martinez as a group, because we understand 

           8             they have a group of parents with them that 

           9             have to get back to their children, and then 

          10             we will take a short break for lunch.  As 

          11             Assemblyman Sanders said earlier today, we 

          12             began at 9:00 this morning, and we're 

          13             committed to staying, if need be, until 

          14             midnight tonight, but we do need two short 

          15             breaks.

          16                    MR. ABU:   Excuse me, I am right 

          17             after this lady here, why do I have to wait 

          18             until after lunch?

          19                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    As Assemblyman 

          20             Sanders said a few minutes ago, we had to 

          21             make a few changes in the schedule that was 

          22             printed yesterday.

          23                    MR. ABU:    You're jumping around.

          24                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Absolutely 

          25             not.  There are two bus loads of parents who 




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           2             need to get back for their children, so 

           3             that's a concern.  Ms. Albisa, please go 

           4             ahead.

           5                    MR. ABU:   It is not fair  --

           6                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Excuse me.  

           7             Excuse me, sir.  Excuse me, sir.  We are 

           8             going to do our very best to keep on 

           9             schedule, and we also have to be mindful 

          10             that sometimes we are off schedule because 

          11             some witnesses take longer than we expect, 

          12             there are parents who have to pick up their 

          13             kids at school.  So we will make whatever 

          14             change we have to make, and we beg your 

          15             indulgence, and we appreciate that.  Let's 

          16             continue to move on.

          17                    MS. ALBISA:    Good morning.  My 

          18             name is Catherine Albisa and I'm the 

          19             Director of US Programs at the Center For 

          20             Economic and Social Rights, and we have a 

          21             right to education monitoring project 

          22             focused on New York City. 

          23                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Can you speak 

          24             into the microphone a little louder.

          25                    MS. ALBISA:    Does that work?  My 




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           2             comments will echo many of the themes that 

           3             were raised here today.  Although I think 

           4             they're worth reinforcing, but from our 

           5             particular perspective, we are a human 

           6             rights organization and we begin from the 

           7             premise that education is an internationally 

           8             recognized human right.  In fact, quite a 

           9             fundamental one. 

          10                    To fully respect and ensure that 

          11             right in the New York City public schools, I 

          12             think there is wide-spread agreement that 

          13             the city and state must create a culture of 

          14             government accountability.  This is not a 

          15             controversial premise.  The controversial 

          16             premise is how, right?  Or question is how. 

          17                    From our perspective, the human 

          18             rights frame work accountability at a 

          19             minimum includes three facets.  One is 

          20             participation, which has been heavily 

          21             discussed here, by rights holders.  That's a 

          22             central part of this debate.  The other is 

          23             monitoring, and yesterday and today we've 

          24             heard about the possibility of an 

          25             ombudsperson playing that role.  Others have 




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           2             talked about parents coordinators playing 

           3             some of that role.  And the third, which 

           4             there's been less discussion of, is the 

           5             right to a remedy.  When there's a 

           6             violation, there's a remedy. 

           7                    There was some implicit reference to 

           8             that earlier, I believe framed in terms of 

           9             juice, but -- and the remedy in the sense is 

          10             the juice.  But it isn't a huge part of this 

          11             conversation, so I'm going to comment on 

          12             that a little more extensively than 

          13             participation and monitoring. 

          14                    First, though, in order for 

          15             participation and monitoring, systems of 

          16             participation and monitoring to function, 

          17             they need to be independent and transparent.  

          18             Everybody agrees with those concepts, but 

          19             making them come to fruition is more 

          20             challenging than agreeing to them in 

          21             principal. 

          22                    Obviously there's a lot of concern 

          23             about whether there can be transparency and 

          24             independence around the participation.  If 

          25             the principal is the one that chooses the 




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           2             parent coordinator, I would caution that we 

           3             should collectively speak to that, all of us 

           4             who are interested in transparency and 

           5             independence as a potential problem and 

           6             think about how the structure you're 

           7             creating could potentially mitigate that as 

           8             well, if that problem is going to be 

           9             inherent in the system. 

          10                    The ombudsperson would also need to 

          11             be independent and have transparent 

          12             processes for it to function, but I'm going 

          13             to skip straight to remedy, because there's 

          14             very little time and a lot of people want to 

          15             speak, and you've heard a lot of this 

          16             before. 

          17                    Let's assume for the purposes of this 

          18             discussion that what an adequate and 

          19             appropriate education is has been defined by 

          20             the city and state through its standards and 

          21             through the range of policies it's committed 

          22             to.  Schools have their CEPs, their policies 

          23             that are supposed to be implemented.  We in 

          24             our project through a series of interviews 

          25             and others here know that policies are 




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           2             routinely not implemented.  That things on 

           3             paper don't come into practice, and there's 

           4             no accountability for that, and there's no 

           5             remedy for that.

           6                    The ones that exist are highly 

           7             inadequate.  They're either informal or 

           8             they're completely discretionary.  Some of 

           9             the more formal ones, like transferring to 

          10             another school, whether through the federal 

          11             mechanism or another mechanism, obviously 

          12             cannot be available to every child who needs 

          13             it.  There's simply not enough slots.  

          14             That's a structural inadequate remedy. 

          15                    So I just want to take very short 

          16             time to urge consideration of what a 

          17             concrete and fruitful remedy may be for 

          18             students and their parents when they are not 

          19             receiving an adequate education or when 

          20             their right to participation, which is also 

          21             part of the fundamental human right to 

          22             education, is thwarted.  

          23                    What happens when an ombudsman or 

          24             ombudswoman consistently documents violation 

          25             of the right to education, educational 




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           2             neglect or obstacles to participation?  I'm 

           3             not sure.  I'm not sure what -- at least 

           4             what students and parents can make happen in 

           5             a case like that, because we haven't really 

           6             worked out collectively here in New York 

           7             what a remedy would be.

           8                    If you stub your toe against a badly 

           9             made sidewalk, you have a remedy, but if 

          10             your child is functionally illiterate for 

          11             the rests of his or her life, you don't.  

          12             And we really have to think about whether 

          13             that makes sense. 

          14                    I'm not suggesting that the remedy 

          15             should parallel the remedy for stubbing your 

          16             toe.  Maybe judicial remedies aren't the 

          17             appropriate ones.  This is a collective 

          18             systematic violation, education neglect in 

          19             our system, and we need to tailor the 

          20             remedies in light of that reality.  And I 

          21             understand your mandate is limited in terms 

          22             of what you can do, but I wanted to bring 

          23             that issue to the surface and re-frame the 

          24             question of juice in terms of the right to a 

          25             remedy. 




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           2                    If we're going to recognize education 

           3             as a fundamental human right, which I think 

           4             we should do, we need to think about 

           5             remedies for violations.

           6                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, we thank 

           7             you very much for being here.  We are very 

           8             well aware, I know I am and most of the 

           9             other members are very well aware, of the 

          10             work of the Center For Economic and Social 

          11             Rights, and having your point of view and 

          12             your participation from both an educational 

          13             and legal standpoint is something we grapple 

          14             with.  So we very much appreciate it.

          15                    MS. ALBISA:    We'll be issuing a 

          16             position paper by the end of the month which 

          17             develops this further and we'll make it 

          18             available to everyone.

          19                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you.

          20                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.  

          21             Blanca Colon and Juan Martinez.  Mr. Abu Abu 

          22             will be next.  Then we'll break for lunch.

          23                    MS. COLON:    Good afternoon.  I'm a 

          24             little nervous.  Hi.  My name is Blanca 

          25             Colon.  I live in the Williamsburg section 




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency.

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           1        1-16-03               School Governance Reform

           2             of Brooklyn.  District 14.  I invested in my 

           3             community by buying a home and plan to live 

           4             there many years.  I have two children ages 

           5             eight and three.  My eight year old, who 

           6             attends a district 14 school. 

           7                    I am the PTA president where my 

           8             daughter goes to school.  As a PTA 

           9             president, I am voicing the serious concerns 

          10             of my parents regarding the closing of the 

          11             community school board.  We know our school 

          12             board members.  They know us.  They listen 

          13             to us.  Mr. Juan Martinez, Anthony Bamonte, 

          14             Mary Rivera are some of the board members 

          15             who are there to help us on a daily basis. 

          16                    They attend our community affairs.  

          17             Listen to our problems.  Identify with our 

          18             goals and aspirations.  I have the jitters  

          19             being in front of all of you. 

          20                    We are a community, as you can see, 

          21             they're backing me up here, sharing and we 

          22             shape each other's lives.  Our school board 

          23             members recognize our children's ambitions.   

          24             They care.  They care about our future, and 

          25             know all the obstacles we face.  I'm sorry.  




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           2             Okay. 

           3                    They care about our future and our 

           4             obstacles we all face.  We are a unique 

           5             community, and we chose a school board that 

           6             reflects all of us.  They are our network  

           7             to translate our school policies into a 

           8             language we can understand.  I mean, we're 

           9             parents.  We don't understand everything 

          10             that happens. 

          11                    We don't want our school board to 

          12             disappear.  We don't want to lose our 

          13             personal touch.  We cannot afford to lose 

          14             our voice.  Our identity.  Our real 

          15             representation.  Listen to us.  Please show 

          16             us you really care on what happens to our 

          17             children who are our future, our community 

          18             and our nation.  And I apologize for 

          19             anything, but thank you for listening. 

          20                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    I just want to 

          21             take note that you got the loudest applause 

          22             today.

          23                    MR. MARTINEZ:   I'm entitled to 

          24             jitters too?  Good afternoon, Chairman 

          25             Thomson, Chairman Sanders.  This is a 




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           2             privilege to be before you today.  And I had 

           3             some prepared remarks, which it's hard to 

           4             follow when you hear her testimony, so I may 

           5             not go into that, but my name is Juan 

           6             Martinez, and I am the president, the proud 

           7             president of community school board 14.  I 

           8             am a product of the very district that today 

           9             I'm privileged to be its president. 

          10                    I was a student in district 14 and 

          11             public school 23 and intermediate school 

          12             318, a school which I came back to teach in, 

          13             and so I'm a former staff member, teacher 

          14             for  -- I taught for five years at IS 318, 

          15             something I'm also very proud of. 

          16                    I'm speaking today on behalf of the 

          17             18,000 children and parents of district 14.  

          18             Our schools are located in the Williamsburg, 

          19             Greenpoint, Bedford Stuyvesant and Bushwick 

          20             sections of Brooklyn. 

          21                    Before yesterday, I was coming here 

          22             to speak to you about what would replace 

          23             school boards, but I was a little confused 

          24             and taken aback when I heard, as everyone 

          25             else did, the Mayoral announcement.  And it 




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           2             didn't  -- it sort of came out with what was 

           3             to be.  Like it was done.  Like it was over.  

           4             That concerned me.  And I hope it concerns 

           5             each and every one of you. 

           6                    I know individual members of the task 

           7             force, and you're respectable, honorable 

           8             people, and you take your responsibilities 

           9             very seriously, so I would think that 

          10             hearing that may have shocked some of you.  

          11             I hope they at least gave you a preview of 

          12             what was to come.  If they didn't, that 

          13             would concern me even more. 

          14                    However, even hearing the Mayor's 

          15             announcement, it made me change what I have 

          16             to say, because it's kind of in response to 

          17             what he announced yesterday, and makes me 

          18             comment on this restructuring plan. 

          19                    I believe that school boards have 

          20             been a mixed bag.  They've been very good, 

          21             and they've been very bad, but I think in 

          22             replacing it, you have to consider that.  

          23             One of the aspects that I think best serves 

          24             the community and the children in each of 

          25             the districts, is that they have a local 




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           2             entity they can go to.  They have true 

           3             advocates.  They have someone, as Blanca 

           4             said, they can speak to that is a neighbor. 

           5                    It's not only that it's a person that 

           6             hopefully understands and has the same 

           7             feelings, but has the same feelings about 

           8             community, about things happening day in and 

           9             day out in the lives of the children and 

          10             parents they represent.  And I think that's 

          11             important.  I think that parents need to 

          12             have a greater role. 

          13                    I looked at the plan proposed by UPA, 

          14             I think that's a model that the task force 

          15             should really look at, because it includes 

          16             that very important parent element, but 

          17             doesn't leave out community.  The answer to 

          18             this major problem of education won't be two 

          19             men fixing the problem.  It can't be a Mayor 

          20             and Chancellor that know all and do all and 

          21             are going to turn around 1,100 schools.  

          22             It's not going to happen. 

          23                    You folks are New Yorkers and you 

          24             know that's not going to happen.  So we need 

          25             you to look at it, to see to it that in your 




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           2             plan of replacing school boards, you keep 

           3             that community entity part of it alive.  You 

           4             keep the parent part to be an intricate part 

           5             of any decision-making power, but it has to 

           6             be with power.  It has to be with teeth. 

           7                    It can't be advisory.  I've been on a 

           8             bunch of advisory boards.  I'm the chairman 

           9             of a hospital advisory board, and we 

          10             recommend, and HHC's cut every single 

          11             hospital service there's ever been. 

          12                    I've been on housing advisory boards 

          13             and the Housing Authority does what it wants 

          14             to do.  So just the word in there, advisory, 

          15             would be a mistake.  You have to have it 

          16             have teeth.  You have to have it have power.  

          17             If you're going to replace school boards, 

          18             replace it with something that's going to 

          19             bring about respect to our parents and to 

          20             our children.  And that way  -- and that way 

          21             we're going to bring about the turning 

          22             around that is the one thing we agree with 

          23             the Mayor and agree with the Chancellor. 

          24                    We want improved schools.  We want 

          25             better scores.  We want our children to 




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           2             succeed.  We want that to happen, but the 

           3             only way to make that happen is not going 

           4             about a corporate model that's shown 

           5             corporate failure and corporate disgrace, 

           6             particularly lately, so that means that that 

           7             model is not all perfect either.  We can't 

           8             make our school system corporate America.  

           9             We need to make it work for children.  Thank 

          10             you very much. 

          11                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    First of all, 

          12             there are couple of questions.  Second of 

          13             all, Mr. Abu knows now why I wasn't going to 

          14             turn their request down to speak before they 

          15             all had to leave.  We appreciate your 

          16             indulgence, Mr. Abu.  We have a couple of 

          17             questions.  Ms. Brown.  And let's try to 

          18             keep the questions brief.  We've got still 

          19             79 people ahead of us today.

          20                    MS. BROWN:    I just like to say 

          21             thank you for your testimony, and I know you 

          22             outside of this room and being very active 

          23             within your community.  If you can think of 

          24             just two things, just two things that has 

          25             made your involvement an involvement with 




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           2             parents in the New York City school district 

           3             successful, so that we have something to 

           4             work on moving forward.  Just two things.

           5                    MR. MARTINEZ:    I think the most 

           6             important thing is respect and 

           7             communication.  We respect our parents and 

           8             we communicate with them, and what we do is 

           9             we try to educate them.  When things come 

          10             out from the central board, we have 

          11             workshops and meetings on Saturday and go 

          12             over it.  And they're very tough.  They ask 

          13             tough questions.  They want to understand 

          14             what the changes are.  They want to 

          15             understand things that impact on the 

          16             children.  They make demands for us for 

          17             these after-school programs.  They want 

          18             programs in the morning. 

          19                    So by having that respectful 

          20             communication and educating them on the 

          21             issues that are important to them, which is 

          22             everything that's happening within their 

          23             schools about their children, we get them to 

          24             participate, because they feel there's a 

          25             place to go where they're not going to be 




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           2             ignored.  Where they're not going to be 

           3             disrespected, and I think that's the basis 

           4             for the numbers you see here and the 

           5             participation we have in our district.

           6                    MS. BROWN:    So your workshops, you 

           7             do these things on Saturdays, and is it on a 

           8             regular basis?  Is it continual?

           9                    MR. MARTINEZ:    It's continual.  

          10             It's on Saturdays.  It's on evenings.  We 

          11             make ourselves  -- and we have a tremendous 

          12             district staff that makes themselves 

          13             available so the professional staff are an 

          14             intricate part of our success.  They make 

          15             themselves available.  We have a 

          16             superintendent that has an open door policy.  

          17             So you have people  --

          18                    You know, I heard in New York 1 

          19             yesterday someone had a panel and the person 

          20             said people in district offices do nothing.  

          21             That was outrageous to hear something like 

          22             that when you know these people, they come 

          23             on weekends to make a change and improve 

          24             lives of children.  You have to respect that 

          25             and I respect that, and that's why I think 




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           2             we're successful, because we have a mix of 

           3             professionals and community people that try 

           4             to make it better.

           5                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Clayton.

           6                    MR. CLAYTON:    Thank you very much 

           7             for your testimony.  First, I'd like to say 

           8             I love the fact that you like the United 

           9             Parents Association's model, because we 

          10             tried to take into account everything our 

          11             members have been telling us and everything 

          12             we've been hearing, and we sit on several 

          13             task forces and committees throughout the 

          14             state, the Professional Standards and 

          15             Practices Board for Teaching, the Closing 

          16             The Gap, the No Child Left Behind Committee 

          17             of Practitioners, and every place UPA is 

          18             seated, we are fighting for parents rights 

          19             and fighting that they have teeth in 

          20             whatever they are serving, and so therefore, 

          21             Blanca, what you expressed was fine as far 

          22             as the community school board was set up 

          23             there, and historically we know why it was 

          24             set up.  The battle we went through in 

          25             Oceanhill, Brownsville, in Harlem, and as 




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           2             long as UPA's seated on any board, like now 

           3             we're on this task force, we will continue 

           4             to make sure that parents have teeth and say 

           5             so in their child's education throughout the 

           6             city. 

           7                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Rivera has a 

           8             question.

           9                    MR. RIVERA:    John, it's nice 

          10             seeing you again.  Quick question.  You said 

          11             advisory is not where we should be going.  

          12             If not advisory, what?  What do you think 

          13             would be an area that we should be looking 

          14             at?

          15                    MR. MARTINEZ:    It should be 

          16             elected panels, educational panels at the 

          17             district level, and I think Councilman 

          18             DeBlasio spoke about the fact that, you 

          19             know, these elections for school boards, 

          20             when they took place, that that was very 

          21             much a reason for the low turn outs.  I 

          22             think we need to look at models where folks 

          23             are elected and these are parent panels that 

          24             really replace school boards with a way that 

          25             they still have at minimal the power to 




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           2             evaluate superintendents and have a say on 

           3             whether the person is doing the job or not 

           4             doing the job. 

           5                    So it doesn't have to be to talk 

           6             about the patronage and go back to putting 

           7             principals and assistant principals and 

           8             school aides and all that.  Fine.  You can 

           9             make that administrative responsibilities, 

          10             but you have to at least provide part of the 

          11             answer being parents and that elected board 

          12             at a district level, to be able to supervise 

          13             and evaluate the work of superintendents 

          14             that are professionally selected because of 

          15             their accomplishments.  Because of their 

          16             achievements.  Because of their credentials.

          17                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. DeLeon.

          18                    MR. DELEON:    Thank you for being 

          19             here.  We've heard a lot about parent 

          20             training.  From your experience, what should 

          21             be the emphasis on parent leadership 

          22             training?

          23                    MR. MARTINEZ:    Parent leadership 

          24             training has to revolve on several things.  

          25             You have to have training on effective 




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           2             communication.  You have to have training on 

           3             whatever the leadership model want them to 

           4             understand. 

           5                    If you have a new structure, you have 

           6             to have training on that structure, because 

           7             it's going to be new to them and new to 

           8             everybody else.  You have to teach protocol 

           9             and process so that you don't have parents 

          10             not knowing what steps to be taken in terms 

          11             of advocating for themselves or advocating 

          12             for the schools. 

          13                    So there has to be a number of 

          14             workshops.  I don't know that  -- I think 

          15             one of the criteria I read in the plan is 30 

          16             hours of training per session.  I think that 

          17             that works.  It can't be some of the 

          18             training sessions that are nice in name.  It 

          19             really has to be interactive sessions where 

          20             parents not only get an education, but 

          21             participate in an answer-and-question 

          22             process so that they really get to find out 

          23             how to function within the new system. 

          24                    So if you do a new system, that's 

          25             part of it.  Just like when we had these 




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           2             failed report cards, we had sessions in 

           3             every school explaining the madness of going 

           4             from an A to a one, and we'll be back to the 

           5             As and Bs soon enough, but we had the 

           6             workshops on that.  So we need to have 

           7             workshops on whatever the new system is, so 

           8             there will be clear understanding and 

           9             participation.

          10                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Colon and 

          11             Mr. Martinez, first of all, we very much 

          12             appreciate your testimony, both of you.  

          13             Ms. Colon, you did very well.  It was from 

          14             the heart.  It was passionate.  Mr. 

          15             Martinez, you're obviously no stranger to a 

          16             microphone.  Thank you very much.  And we 

          17             also appreciate the fact that you brought so 

          18             many parents and neighbors from your 

          19             community with you.  And we'll do our very 

          20             best.  Thank you very much.

          21                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    I just want to 

          22             add, just for the record, that you were 

          23             concerned about it being a foregone 

          24             conclusion yesterday.  This body has the 

          25             task rooted in legislation in determining 




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           2             what will replace community school boards.

           3                    MR. MARTINEZ:    Thank you so much.

           4                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Mr. Abu Abu, 

           5             vice president, school board district 18.  

           6             Then we will break for lunch. 

           7                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Again, let me 

           8             just indicate, if people are getting up to 

           9             leave, please leave quietly and keep the 

          10             conversations low, please.

          11                    MR. ABU:    I thank you, 

          12             Ms. Thomson, I thank you Mr. Sanders.  My 

          13             name is Abu A.Q. Abu.  I'm an honorably 

          14             discharged veteran.  Since 9-11 I feel 

          15             compelled to say that over and over again. 

          16                    Now we  -- the gentleman here 

          17             mentioned superintendent.  We have a 

          18             superintendent in district 18 since she's 

          19             been there, all the qualified principals 

          20             have abandoned the district.  The math 

          21             scores have gone down and we have all gone 

          22             down.  Unless she goes, I doubt very, very 

          23             seriously whether any improvement in that 

          24             district will occur. 

          25                    Now I am against getting rid of 




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           2             school boards.  I'm against it, and I think 

           3             the reason behind it, and I'll depart from 

           4             my departed speech, is race is involved.  

           5             Now we have Mayor  -- and power.  Mayor 

           6             Bloomberg, he wants more power.  Now we have 

           7             had two Mayors in two mid western cities who 

           8             took over the school boards.  What happened 

           9             to them?  It went down and down, as is the 

          10             financial health of New York City.  And He 

          11             appointed a prosecutor as a Chancellor.  Now 

          12             Mr. Klein's job is prosecution.  It 

          13             certainly is not education. 

          14                    How do we expect the youngsters to 

          15             improve when Mr. Klein is prosecution.  I'm 

          16             jumping around, jumping around, so if this 

          17             speech sounds disjointed, I apologize. 

          18                    99 percent of the kids in Rikers 

          19             Island are kids that look like me and the 

          20             lady here and all those on the end there.  

          21             99 percent.  Now there must be reason for 

          22             it.  Poor education in schools is Harlem, 

          23             Bed Stuy, East Flatbush and the South Bronx. 

          24                    Now what do these neighborhoods have 

          25             in common?  You know what they have in 




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           2             common, and no disrespect to you ladies and 

           3             gentlemen here, but the schools in my 

           4             district are 99 percent black, and there is 

           5             no reason at all why this task force here 

           6             should represent the kids in my district, 

           7             East Flatbush.  I'm not saying that you, 

           8             ladies and gentlemen, are prejudice.  I'm 

           9             saying it does not look right, and something 

          10             should be done about this. 

          11                    No offense to none of you.  I'm quite 

          12             sure that you're well meaning, but unless 

          13             you have representation up here that look 

          14             like Ms. Brown and Mr. Clayton, Mr. DeLeon 

          15             and Ms. Hill, you cannot get the job done. 

          16                    I was stationed in Birmingham many, 

          17             many years ago.  I walked where Rosa Parks 

          18             walked, and we fought for what we fighting 

          19             for then is what we fighting for now. 

          20                    There's no reason in the year 2003 

          21             this should be happening here.  I'm against 

          22             it 100 percent.  I said that 99 percent of 

          23             the kids in Rikers, and they're all in jail, 

          24             and they're getting gang raped and infected 

          25             with AIDS, and yours are on Wall Street.  




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           2             And it's a long way from Rikers to Rector 

           3             Street, baby.  I know, I've been to both of 

           4             them. 

           5                    Now Adele and Sedio claimed  -- say 

           6             there's too much cronyism and too much 

           7             nepotism in the school boards.  But Sedio, 

           8             his daughter, works in the district, 

           9             district 18, and his wife was a candidate 

          10             for the superintendent job in district 18.  

          11             Is this hypocrisy or what? 

          12                    I'm going to cut it short, because I 

          13             believe in economy and language is still a 

          14             virtue.  I just want to ask a question, if 

          15             this board is not motivated by racism, then 

          16             why are only minority boards in minority 

          17             neighborhoods being targeted?  Why don't 

          18             they get rid of the boards from upstate New 

          19             York, which are all predominantly Caucasian 

          20             boards? 

          21                    I'll wind up.  I take less than five 

          22             minutes.  You have to go to lunch and I 

          23             appreciate it.  To all the apathetic blacks 

          24             who placed the house Negros in the Assembly 

          25             and elsewhere, who have sold out the 




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           2             communities for their own personal gain, I 

           3             say to them you made your bed, now lay on 

           4             it.  Lay on it.  And I thank you very much, 

           5             Mr. Sanders and thank you, Ms. Thomson.

           6                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Mr. Abu, we may 

           7             not look alike, but you may be surprised to 

           8             know that there are a lot of things that you 

           9             think that are in common with people who may 

          10             not look exactly like you.  I can only tell 

          11             you this, can only tell you this, the men 

          12             and women of this task force, we can't speak 

          13             for anybody else today or in past years, but 

          14             the men and women of this task force from 

          15             all parts of the city are absolutely 

          16             dedicated to the proposition and the notion 

          17             that every child in the city ought to 

          18             receive a world-class education to prepare 

          19             them for life in the 21st Century.  And I 

          20             also know that words are cheap and results 

          21             are measured by what we ultimately do.  So 

          22             hopefully four weeks from now when this task 

          23             force makes its recommendations, you will 

          24             feel that you and your communities that you 

          25             represent, were well represented by the 




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           2             decisions made by this task force.  We thank 

           3             you for being here.

           4                    MR. ABU:    Thank you for having me, 

           5             sir.

           6                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    The time now is 

           7             1:15.  We will be returning at 2:00.  We'll 

           8             see you then. 

           9                    (A recess was taken.)

          10                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Our first 

          11             speaker this afternoon is Betty Feibusch, a 

          12             former member of community school board 15 

          13             in Brooklyn, and we will make sure that the 

          14             other task force members get a copy of your 

          15             testimony.  We'll xerox it for you.

          16                    MS. FEIBUSCH:    Honorable members 

          17             of the task force and members of the 

          18             community.  You have spent many hours 

          19             listening to experts and members of the 

          20             communities throughout the city as you 

          21             attempt to formulate the next plan for 

          22             school governance. 

          23                    I am speaking as a parent who sent 

          24             her children to public school, a former 

          25             community school board member and a graduate 




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           2             student of public policy.  I will briefly 

           3             present some of the functions which 

           4             effective community school boards served, 

           5             present criteria against which various 

           6             proposals can be evaluated, review some of 

           7             the major elements of solutions that have 

           8             been suggested, suggest that there can be 

           9             multiple solutions, urge you to understand 

          10             that the process you created, a series of 

          11             hearings and public discourse, mirrors the 

          12             civic involvement that is part of the 

          13             process of governance, and finally, I will 

          14             advocate for a mechanism for governance, 

          15             which includes broad parent and community 

          16             involvement, strong measures of independence 

          17             and accountability, oversight to be assured 

          18             under state law, and adequate funding for 

          19             the processes to be effectively implemented. 

          20                    In thinking about what governance 

          21             structure should replace, the community 

          22             school boards, I concluded that the first 

          23             question should be what did effective 

          24             community school boards actually do?  Only 

          25             by listing these functions can we start to 




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           2             build a structure to replace the boards.  At 

           3             its best, the community school boards were 

           4             able to legitimately verbalize the concerns 

           5             of district parents and the broader 

           6             community in the public discourse. 

           7                    At its best, the community school 

           8             board provided an effective springboard for 

           9             discussion that lead to school change.  It 

          10             provide a mechanism for parents and 

          11             community members to be effective irritants 

          12             to the system. 

          13                    In its very broad strokes, what did 

          14             community school board members do and where 

          15             can these functions now be placed?  

          16             Development of education policy.  This seems 

          17             clearly to be placed within the advisory 

          18             board to the Department Of Education. 

          19                    Appointment of district 

          20             superintendents, principals and assistant 

          21             principals.  While the Department has 

          22             indicated that it needs to control these 

          23             functions, there is a need for 

          24             accountability to parents and the community 

          25             in these appointments.




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           2                    Development of new initiatives, such 

           3             as middle school restructuring, and the 

           4             initiation of new schools.  These measures 

           5             were taken by community school boards as a 

           6             direct result of parent input and 

           7             dissatisfaction with the status quo. 

           8                    Mediation between school 

           9             administration and parents.  In selected 

          10             instances, the board took a role in 

          11             mediating disputes when the district 

          12             administration was silent. 

          13                    Information and dissemination of news 

          14             about new programs, school achievements, 

          15             meetings, current and new initiatives, 

          16             special grants.  Board members took 

          17             responsibility for informing the broad 

          18             community about what was happening in the 

          19             district. 

          20                    Advocacy on a district wide and 

          21             city-wide level for increased funding, 

          22             changes in specific policies, advocating for 

          23             changes in failing schools, looking for 

          24             solutions and bringing in resources. 

          25                    Pushing the district to work more 




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           2             closely with community-based organizations. 

           3                    Pushing the district to put greater 

           4             resources into grant writing and 

           5             fund-raising. 

           6                    Advocating for the building of new 

           7             buildings, prefabs, leased space, 

           8             renovations.

           9                    Asking the hard questions that 

          10             district administrators did not want to 

          11             hear. 

          12                    And, individually, as members of the 

          13             board, whether we were shopping at Pathmark 

          14             or waiting for our children after swimming 

          15             class, we were the direct link to the 

          16             district for the many parents that knew us 

          17             in our neighbors. 

          18                    I ask, where will these roles now be 

          19             situated?  Who will make sure that these 

          20             voices are not lost?  The new proposes and 

          21             ombudsperson, a public advocate for 

          22             education, the expansion of the local 

          23             community planning boards to include 

          24             education, an independent education office, 

          25             an appointed, not elected, local school 




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           2             board with advisory power, all need to be 

           3             evaluated against the criteria of 

           4             independence, ability to provide effective 

           5             oversight, checks and balances, and the 

           6             extent of parent and community 

           7             representation. 

           8                    The solutions that have been 

           9             suggested are not mutually exclusive.  For 

          10             example, community planning districts can 

          11             and should include education within their 

          12             functions, since there are strong linkages 

          13             between youth service, schools, social 

          14             services and health and so on.

          15                    Furthermore, the community planning 

          16             boards already have staff and processes that 

          17             could incorporate some additional functions.  

          18             School leadership teams have unmet 

          19             potential.  They can be strengthened and 

          20             report to an independent office so that they 

          21             are not undermined by unwilling school 

          22             administrators. 

          23                    Parent councils at district or 

          24             clusters level have been proposed, but in a 

          25             solely advisory capacity.  They need to be 




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           2             strengthened in order to be effective. 

           3                    Therefore, I urge you to craft a 

           4             mechanism with broad parent and community 

           5             involvement, independence and a system of 

           6             oversight with strong accountability.  I 

           7             therefore want to leave you with the thought 

           8             that while we may disagree with the 

           9             definition of what a good school is, we 

          10             would be hard pressed to find examples of 

          11             good schools which do not have authentic 

          12             parent involvement and strong links to the 

          13             community. 

          14                    I want to remind you that most school 

          15             change does not come from within the walls 

          16             of the classroom, it comes from the outside, 

          17             as parents, the public, the universities, 

          18             the business community become forceful 

          19             irritants to the entrenched system. 

          20                    In conclusion, I want to share with 

          21             you one of the national education goals for 

          22             the year 2000.  Quote, parents and families 

          23             will help assure that schools are adequately 

          24             supported and will hold schools and teachers 

          25             to high standards of accountability.  End of 




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           2             the quote.  The new system that you create 

           3             must include the elements of oversight and 

           4             accountability to assure that this happens.  

           5             Thank you. 

           6                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We thank you 

           7             very much.  I can tell you're well on your 

           8             way to your master's.  I hope that we do as 

           9             well on our task as you are evidently doing 

          10             in your task.  We thank you so much for your 

          11             insight, and obviously your testimony 

          12             represents a lot of thinking that you have 

          13             done both within Baruch and outside of 

          14             Baruch, and we appreciate you sharing that 

          15             with us.

          16                    MS. FEIBUSCH:    Thank you.

          17                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:     Thank you.

          18                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Stephanie 

          19             Roberts, district 16.  Stephanie Roberts.

          20                    MS. ROBERTS:   Hello.  Thank you, 

          21             and good afternoon by now, for allowing me 

          22             to be here, honorable task force.  People 

          23             that are still here in the audience.  And my 

          24             name is Stephanie Roberts.  I'm a parent of 

          25             district 16.  Parent of a child at public 




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           2             school 262, Malique L. Shabbas. 

           3                    My question this morning is mostly as 

           4             a parent.  The question is I am solely in 

           5             approval of disbandment of the school 

           6             boards, since my district, the school board 

           7             have not done anything that is, you know, 

           8             helpful to the parents that was there, but I 

           9             am in approval of the ideal of the school 

          10             board. 

          11                    I am in approval of the parents being 

          12             a part of the school board, and I also would 

          13             like to see the collaboration of the UFT, 

          14             school safety, special ed, since they never 

          15             at any time hardly ever put along with any 

          16             of the meetings that are done, and also with 

          17             other educational processes, such as English 

          18             language, people speaking other languages, 

          19             since most schools are getting more and more 

          20             people that don't speak English, that are 

          21             trying to learn the language.  As long as 

          22             they get the information, process of the 

          23             information getting to them. 

          24                    I also would like to see or the 

          25             parents of public school 262 would like to 




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           2             get the information disseminated better, 

           3             because I'm not clear on the district 

           4             liaison position.  They want a parent 

           5             coordinator, but my question is, how will 

           6             that corollate with the PTAs, the PAC, the 

           7             President's Council and the liaison that's 

           8             already at the district? 

           9                    We already have problems with the 

          10             liaisons at the district of disseminating 

          11             information so that we know when a meeting 

          12             is going on first of all.  This is coming 

          13             down from PTA, PAC.  I'm not only talking 

          14             about the small ones, but I'm also talking 

          15             about city wide.  We need to get the 

          16             information when there are elections, when 

          17             there are meetings going on. 

          18                    Yes, some of us may have to get a 

          19             computer.  Some of us may have to get 

          20             e-mail, but why can't you notify the 

          21             districts or the schools that they're in 

          22             that a meeting is going on?  Disseminate the 

          23             information.  You want parent involvement?  

          24             Let the parents know. 

          25                    The next thing I would like to get 




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           2             information on is the power.  If we have no 

           3             respect, if there is no power, then it's 

           4             just a facade.  What is the parent 

           5             coordinator role in the school?  We have 

           6             PTA, as I said before.  We have PAC and 

           7             representatives that are in the school 

           8             already that don't even bring back 

           9             information, important information.  So it's 

          10             just a facade if I can't get that 

          11             information. 

          12                    I have to kneel down and sneak around 

          13             to get information on this meeting.  You 

          14             understand?  So if I have to kneel down and 

          15             sneak to get information on this meeting, 

          16             there's a problem with what you already 

          17             have.  I'm going to make this quick and 

          18             short, because I know other people would 

          19             like to speak. 

          20                    And also, this is just my main idea, 

          21             is the checks and balances.  I just hope 

          22             that it works out for the kids of the 

          23             community.  I would like to see an area in 

          24             which you have a collaboration of community 

          25             board, planning board.  Community where you 




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           2             have block associations that can in turn 

           3             give information to the block from the 

           4             school.  Why not get everyone involved, not 

           5             just only parents.  I would love to see a 

           6             board with just parents, but there's a lot 

           7             of things parents don't know. 

           8                    That's where the academy comes in.  

           9             Where are the facilitators from that academy 

          10             coming from?  Are they teaching what the 

          11             task force want them to know or what they 

          12             need to know about policies and legislations 

          13             so we can also combat and fight the 

          14             grievances that we were trying to deal with 

          15             the school board?  

          16                    So in conclusion, I'd just like to 

          17             say thank you for allowing me to talk.  I've 

          18             been to several of the meetings but I would 

          19             just like to say respect, reinforcement and 

          20             enforcement of rules, and just a 

          21             collaboration so we can all work together so 

          22             that our students can succeed socially and 

          23             academically.

          24                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, Stephanie 

          25             Roberts, I think you have said to us very 




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           2             succinctly and very clearly what times it 

           3             took other people 30 or 40 minutes to say, 

           4             you did it in four or five minutes.  We hear 

           5             you.  We get the message and you said it 

           6             very well.  We thank you very much.

           7                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:   Thank you.  

           8             Patricia Joseph.

           9                    MS. JOSEPH:   Good afternoon, task 

          10             force and everyone present.  My name is 

          11             Patricia Joseph and I am PTA Recording 

          12             Secretary of PS 181 in district 17. 

          13                    And I believe that parents have been 

          14             left out of the decision making of what's 

          15             best for our children for too long.  

          16             Although most us are not licensed teachers, 

          17             we do know what we want for our children.  

          18             We want people who will really care and 

          19             represent the students of New York City.  We 

          20             want people who will strive for excellence 

          21             and standards in New York City public school 

          22             system, not people who will sit back while 

          23             they watch our children fail and fail badly.  

          24             Not because they're not capable of passing 

          25             exams and excelling, but simply because the 




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           2             system has been failing our children 

           3             miserably.  And some people in key areas 

           4             just don't care. 

           5                    I believe the new body that replaces 

           6             the community school boards should comprise 

           7             of a variety of people.  They should consist 

           8             of education experts, example, education 

           9             professors from teacher colleges, child 

          10             psychologists, parents, community members, 

          11             students and clergy. 

          12                    Former powers and responsibilities.  

          13             One, supervise the schools in New York City.  

          14             Two, supervise and monitor all principals, 

          15             teachers and staff.  Three, supervise the 

          16             students in the public schools, and make 

          17             recommendations.  Four, devise a standard 

          18             curriculum for all schools to follow.  Five, 

          19             sit with all school leadership teams in 

          20             order to keep the lines of communication 

          21             open and everyone would be well informed on 

          22             all details, decisions, plans, etcetera of 

          23             the body for all schools in order that 

          24             everyone be on the same page. 

          25                    Six, the new body should also decide 




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           2             who will require additional training and 

           3             which areas in order to maximize learning in 

           4             the schools.  Seven, monitor the financial 

           5             deploy in each school.  Eight, make 

           6             recommendations for each school based on 

           7             their needs.  Nine, ensure the schools do 

           8             what they are supposed to do academically, 

           9             professionally and otherwise.  10, ensure 

          10             all problems are addressed and go through 

          11             the proper channels.  11, formulate a 

          12             troubleshooter department for parents and 

          13             students. 

          14                    12, develop a confidential mediation 

          15             department in each middle and high school 

          16             where they can solve problems, simple 

          17             problems.  13, formulate a crisis prevention 

          18             department in each school to alleviate 

          19             problems.  If the Department of Education 

          20             don't do some drastic changes in their 

          21             approach to educating our challenge, I would 

          22             not like to see what our society will be 

          23             like in the next 10 to 15 years when these 

          24             under-educated youths are unleashed out into 

          25             society. 




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           2                    Somebody better start caring and 

           3             caring quickly, because millions of angry 

           4             youths hungry for care and affection will be 

           5             roaming out there and it will be us they'll 

           6             be coming after. 

           7                    And be sure that morals and values be 

           8             taught to all students, because that has 

           9             been lacking in the schools recently.  This 

          10             is a repeat, because I had lost part of my  

          11             -- the previous quotation, so I'm repeating.  

          12             If the Department Of Education does not make 

          13             some drastic changes, like I said before, in 

          14             the approach to educating our children. 

          15                    Parents will have a great deal to 

          16             contribute to the body, because we see 

          17             firsthand what our children are learning or 

          18             not learning and whether the schools are 

          19             meeting the standards.  Parents are aware of 

          20             the shortcomings and needs of the schools. 

          21                    Children relate to their parents 

          22             what's happening in the schools on a daily 

          23             basis, so we are well informed.  I cannot 

          24             say the school boards are doing a wonderful 

          25             job at this time, because they have limited 




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           2             power to control the inadequacies in the 

           3             schools. 

           4                    I am not sure how functional the 

           5             boards are, because very few principals and 

           6             teachers attend the meetings so they can 

           7             hear each other's concerns.  The school 

           8             boards or whatever body is chosen to replace 

           9             the school boards should be able to go into 

          10             the schools and monitor the principals, 

          11             teachers at work, at any time they wish, so 

          12             they can rate each teacher's performance in 

          13             the classroom. 

          14                    People versed in and have a working 

          15             knowledge of child psychology and the 

          16             principals of education should be an 

          17             integral part of this reform body.  These 

          18             people are necessary to ensure all have a 

          19             working knowledge of what is expected of 

          20             students at varying ages academically, 

          21             psychologically and emotionally. 

          22                    Skilled professionals with this know 

          23             how is necessary to assist and contact 

          24             problems of behaviors of students.  

          25             Teachers, college professors should be 




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           2             included in the new body, because they have 

           3             a clear understanding of how students learn 

           4             effectively and will be able to impart their 

           5             knowledge on what is best for our children.  

           6             They can and will impart the dos and don'ts 

           7             of education, since it is quite clear that 

           8             some educators are not aware of things that 

           9             should and should not be said to students. 

          10                    Certain words motivate and some cause 

          11             students to lose interest or self-esteem.  I 

          12             hope this new reform body will make the 

          13             betterment of our students and our society 

          14             at large.  Thank you.

          15                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Joseph, we 

          16             thank you very much, and I think that PS 181 

          17             is very fortunate to have you as there 

          18             recording secretary.  I was struck by the 

          19             orderliness of your presentation point by 

          20             point, and obviously you've taken your 

          21             skills as a very good recording secretary 

          22             and you were able to communicate very 

          23             effectively with this body what the needs 

          24             are.  We thank you.

          25                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.  




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           2             Beverly Wall.  Ms. Wall is a PTA president.

           3                    MS. WALL:    Good afternoon.  First 

           4             of all, I would like to thank the task force 

           5             for allowing me the opportunity to speak.  

           6             You have some papers, but I'm not going to 

           7             go with it, because it's kind of hard to 

           8             write something down when it's a heart 

           9             thing. 

          10                    I was trying at 4:00 this morning.  

          11             I'm not a typist.  I am a parent and a 

          12             grandparent, and I'm also a PTA president 

          13             from George Gershwin IS 166.  I do the best 

          14             I can to go to all the meetings because I am 

          15             trying to learn.  I know something is wrong 

          16             and that our children are not learning, but 

          17             it's time we stopped talking about what 

          18             happened in the past, what was not done and 

          19             let's say today what we're going to start 

          20             doing so we can fix it out. 

          21                    I was so protrude this morning 

          22             because like I said, when I came here, I 

          23             came here with the understanding we would 

          24             come with ideals on parents that have been 

          25             involved and had seen how easy and how hard 




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           2             it is for parents to be involved in their 

           3             children's education, and then when I heard 

           4             the Chancellor and Mr. Walcott from the 

           5             Mayor's office speaking, I got so protrude.  

           6             Because unfortunately, I'm in a school where 

           7             parents are not welcome there. 

           8                    So when I hear them say that they're 

           9             going to let a principal pick the PTA, it 

          10             hurt my heart, because see, I have been 

          11             doing  -- I have an executive board, and we 

          12             just have minus one, and we do care about 

          13             not just our children, but those 1,600 

          14             that's over there in that school.  And I go 

          15             to the meetings.  I buy books on how to 

          16             learn so we can professionally put the 

          17             meetings out there, but we can't make the 

          18             parents come, but you can be ready if they 

          19             do show up, because to me if two show up, 

          20             they're important.

          21                    But I'm just saying though, whatever 

          22             you do do, mean what you say in your hearts 

          23             that you do mean our children are first.  

          24             I'm not looking for a job.  All I want is 

          25             that our children in the neighborhoods that 




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           2             we live in will be educated, because just 

           3             like the other lady said, those children are 

           4             going to have to get money from some place. 

           5                    I can't afford to take care of my son 

           6             for the rest of my life, nor my 

           7             grandchildren.  I do care, and there's a 

           8             whole lot of parents that do care.  Parents 

           9             need training.  They do.  They're afraid.  

          10             Everybody does not have the same 

          11             personality.  Everyone don't come out 

          12             running from the gun, but if you teach them, 

          13             we all can learn and be up there with you 

          14             one day.  We could, if that's what we choose 

          15             to do.

          16                    But let's give our children an 

          17             opportunity and let's make the parents feel 

          18             that we want you in the school.  We want you 

          19             to be involved in your children's education, 

          20             not when something negative comes, but to be 

          21             involved to say we're going to work with the 

          22             teachers and the principal. 

          23                    The school leadership team.  That's 

          24             another problem.  I sit on that also.  Do 

          25             you know that we're having a C-30 process?  




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           2             Our UFT rep has not showed up to a meeting 

           3             since the beginning of September.  When they 

           4             heard that the new governance had changed 

           5             under the C-30, I got it from someone I 

           6             won't even mention that came to me and heard 

           7             them discussing that he told one of the 

           8             people that's going to be applying for the 

           9             position, "Oh, well, I guess I'll start 

          10             coming now." 

          11                    All I'm saying is accountability.  We 

          12             had a blue book.  You have rules in place.  

          13             But you can tell me anything to do, but if 

          14             no one ever checked to see what I'm doing, 

          15             where is the accountability?  And that's the 

          16             only thing I want you all to please, please 

          17             don't just say we're going to do it and just 

          18             put it out there and expect that everybody's 

          19             going to follow. 

          20                    Make the parents accountable.  If I 

          21             say I want to be a PTA president and you're 

          22             training me how to do it, make sure I'm 

          23             doing my job.  But teach me first.  Show me 

          24             how to do it, but don't just put it over 

          25             there and say that we're doing it, and let's 




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           2             go back to the old way of no one having 

           3             checks and balances and asking why it's not 

           4             done, because that's the problem. 

           5                    Parents, we love our children.  We 

           6             really do.  And on that I thank you for 

           7             putting up with me, listening to me and 

           8             believe me, please, our children should be 

           9             first, and I thank you again for hearing me.

          10                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Beverly Wall, we 

          11             thank you for speaking from the heart.  We 

          12             need to not only hear what people have 

          13             thought about for weeks and written down, 

          14             but you spoke to us from your heart, and we 

          15             heard you and it was powerful.

          16                    MS. WALL:    Thank you.

          17                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Beverly, I 

          18             just want to clarify something the 

          19             Chancellor said today.  He said that he was 

          20             recommending that the principals appoint the 

          21             parent liaisons.  No one, no one other than 

          22             parents has the right to elect a PTA 

          23             president.  That would never happen that the 

          24             Chancellor would do that.  It wouldn't be 

          25             allowed under the national PTA rules and 




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           2             regulations.

           3                    MS. WALL:    So can I ask you a 

           4             question.  The parent liaison that we now 

           5             have in place that's at the district office, 

           6             so what he's speaking of, is that going to 

           7             circumvent that person that's there?

           8                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    What he's 

           9             saying is every school would have a parent 

          10             liaison.

          11                    MS. WALL:    I still don't like that 

          12             anyway.  I just do believe that the PTA 

          13             president should be held accountable for 

          14             what they're doing, because you know, you 

          15             and I think and we have the same thing, our 

          16             children there.  So this is how I look at 

          17             it, with the parents, that we should be held 

          18             accountable.

          19                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Robin Brown.

          20                    MS. BROWN:   What the Deputy Mayor 

          21             Dennis Walcott and the Chancellor testified 

          22             to this morning is that they would have a 

          23             parent liaison in every school, but the 

          24             principal would hire and select the parent 

          25             liaison.  Just to give a point of 




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           2             clarification.  In his testimony today, he  

           3             said every school would have a parent 

           4             liaison and the principal would hire and 

           5             select this particular person.

           6                    MS. WALL:    Now, since you are  -- 

           7             now would you clarify to me when he's saying 

           8             the parent liaison, that's to be the go 

           9             between between the parents and the 

          10             principal, because if he's too busy -- if 

          11             that's what it's supposed to be?

          12                    MS. BROWN:    In the testimony, it 

          13             did not define their role, except that they 

          14             would be involved in parents.  Did not 

          15             define their duties or what they would be 

          16             responsible for.

          17                    MS. WALL:    Okay.  Like I said, I 

          18             still have my -- I've been a PTA president 

          19             and very active, and like I said, even my 

          20             executive board is very active.  And when 

          21             you  -- if you're telling me you don't want 

          22             us there anyway and you're going to tell 

          23             that person's going to be able to pick a 

          24             parent liaison, and they're being paid, 

          25             where a man's treasures, there so is his 




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           2             heart.  So who are they going to be 

           3             concerned about? 

           4                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    I think that's a 

           5             good message to leave us with.  Thank you 

           6             very much.

           7                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.  

           8             Barbara Faison, school board member, 

           9             district 19.  I hope I didn't mispronounce 

          10             your name.

          11                    MS. FAISON:    Good afternoon, 

          12             Assemblyman Steven Sanders, Ms. Terri 

          13             Thomson and the members of the task force.  

          14             I appreciate the opportunity to speak before 

          15             you today about my ideas and comment on 

          16             reform for the governance of community 

          17             school district in the City of New York. 

          18                    I believe that school districts would 

          19             be better served if they are represented by 

          20             local elected school board members, made up 

          21             of parents and community residents of the 

          22             district. 

          23                    Members of the community understand 

          24             each other.  We talk.  We work together.  We 

          25             interact with each other.  Our children play 




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           2             together.  We go to dances and parties and 

           3             churches together.  So I feel that  -- and 

           4             in our community, we know what our children 

           5             need and we as a group are able to express 

           6             what we think will be best for our children, 

           7             and as a school board member in my district, 

           8             I live right where the people that go to 

           9             school  -- the children that go to school 

          10             are.  So they're able to come to me and we 

          11             can sit down and we can express or they can 

          12             tell me what they want done in their 

          13             schools. 

          14                    Now I feel that local school board 

          15             are a good thing for the community, and I 

          16             believe the Chancellor also feels that way, 

          17             because I know that he said today that he's 

          18             going to have a board, he's going to elect a 

          19             board to help with the matters in the 

          20             school.  So if he feels that he's creating a 

          21             board, and he's going to have an academy and 

          22             training for that board, why can't he keep 

          23             the same board members that he has, educate 

          24             them, and make parents happy? 

          25                    Because you have to remember now, 




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           2             that voting -- we're elected in by our 

           3             community.  And I think people should have 

           4             the right to vote for who they think will do 

           5             a better job of representing them.  So if 

           6             the Chancellor feels that a board is very 

           7             important, then I think that he should 

           8             consider keeping the board, because we work, 

           9             eat, sleep together, and we have children 

          10             that makes us tied together, and we're able 

          11             to express ourselves better. 

          12                    I was thinking that school boards 

          13             should be elected and funded adequately to 

          14             establish policy to improve student reading 

          15             and math scores, provide training 

          16             opportunities for parents, help parents to 

          17             become more efficient in the school district 

          18             by improving their leadership skills, 

          19             provide more after-school programs, 

          20             including tutorial, recreational, ESL and 

          21             GED. 

          22                    I think they should establish a 

          23             resource center for parents and community 

          24             residents.  Establish standards to measure 

          25             accountability for programs against the 




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           2             performance of the superintendent 

           3             administration and teachers. 

           4                    I therefore appeal to the task force 

           5             to include in your recommendation to the 

           6             Governor and legislators that local elected 

           7             school boards be mandatory in the community 

           8             school district in which they live.  Thank 

           9             you.

          10                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

          11                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, we thank 

          12             you very much, Ms. Faison, and we certainly 

          13             appreciate the service that you have given 

          14             to community school board 19, and we very 

          15             much appreciate the comments and your 

          16             recommendations, and we'll be continuing to 

          17             look at them, your recommendations, very, 

          18             very seriously.  We thank you. 

          19                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Stuart 

          20             Balberg, member of community school board 

          21             17.  We'll go on to the next person, and 

          22             call him next.  Dr. Williamson, LEC 

          23             chairman, CEC and PIE, and I'm sure we're 

          24             going to find out what those acronyms mean.

          25                    MR. WILLIAMSON:   Praise the Lord.  




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           2             Good evening, everyone.  I'm chairman of the 

           3             Creator's Educational Crusade and Partner's 

           4             In Education.  To put it shortly, we are 

           5             investigators that work under the interfaith 

           6             organizations globally. 

           7                    My main function as chairman is also 

           8             one of the top investigators.  I've been in 

           9             positions for over 32 years in the 

          10             investigation of the Board of Education, and 

          11             as my job as an investigator, I must also 

          12             play a part as being a servant of the Board 

          13             of Education and her children. 

          14                    Our main thesis is children first in 

          15             health and education.  It always has been.  

          16             We know where the community school board 

          17             came from.  The history of it.  The 

          18             foundation of it.  How it got started. 

          19                    I have a list that I presented to 

          20             you, but I will not read exactly from that 

          21             list.  I know it by heart.  But, the main 

          22             function is that the community school board 

          23             is necessary.  The community school board is 

          24             a Civil Rights Act. 

          25                    The community school board was 




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           2             brought together by people like Reverend 

           3             Wilcox, Reverend Galamason, Brother 

           4             Ferguson, Dr. Gtu Iusi, Brother Sonny Carson   

           5             and Brother Sam Wright.  These were the ones 

           6             that started the community school board in 

           7             Brownsville and Bed Stuy, and it spreaded 

           8             all through the United States.  It was put 

           9             together as a Civil Rights Act to guarantee 

          10             every nationality their part in civil rights 

          11             in America. 

          12                    The community school board is a true 

          13             symbol of America.  See, as far as our 

          14             corporation is concerned, America is one 

          15             nation under God, but it wasn't represented 

          16             as that until we started putting our 

          17             children first.  And when the civil rights 

          18             movement came along through Martin Luther 

          19             King and Dr. Malcolm X, they implemented 

          20             this.  They showed that America need to take 

          21             a look at herself and show that civil rights 

          22             is needed for everyone, every color, every 

          23             nationality.  And the community school 

          24             board's main thesis was that.

          25                     But now, I want to get down to the 




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           2             nitty gritty.  Why is it being moved?  Why 

           3             do you as a panel is necessary right now?  

           4             What brought on this act?  Praise the Lord 

           5             that you did come together.  We thankful to 

           6             you being the panel for this board.  And I 

           7             heard someone say it's this color and that 

           8             color.  Hey, I'm a man of God.  Color has 

           9             nothing to do with it.  God loves us, and 

          10             the issue is not black or white, it's good 

          11             or evil.  

          12                    So let me get straight to the point.  

          13             Number one, we as an organization worked 

          14             from 1970 to now with the community school 

          15             boards, injecting programs into the 

          16             community school boards out of district 13, 

          17             which we was sent to do by higher order to 

          18             see if we will be accepted as people in the 

          19             high ishlim government, and so the CEC and 

          20             Partners In Education, we wanted to make the 

          21             community school board independent, not 

          22             needing no money from the government.  And 

          23             the only way we could do that was build a 

          24             curriculum of income, a budget, which this 

          25             mayorship has not done.  It has not built a 




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           2             budget for you and for our children to 

           3             guarantee them their promise of tomorrow and 

           4             their part and their piece of the pie.

           5                    Now we formed an organization called 

           6             the Global Contractors Guild which came 

           7             through junior high school 258 to make money 

           8             economically for the community school board 

           9             in our district.  We went through Africa and 

          10             the country of Angola where we had got 

          11             together with 13 countries to do a mass 

          12             production of building the largest 

          13             irrigation system on earth to raise 

          14             trillions of dollars for the educational 

          15             system, and it was blocked by the Nixon 

          16             administration after Mayor Dinkins, and the 

          17             same administration after Mayor Dinkins, we 

          18             was investigating before the Dinkins 

          19             administration.  When we went to get rid of 

          20             Frank Macarola for dealing in contracts 

          21             under the table, where Commissioners were 

          22             dealing in contracts under the table, and 

          23             where other organizations were being 

          24             controlled by organized crime in the 

          25             community of the organized crime family, and 




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           2             we found out that there were two many 

           3             commissioners taking money under the table. 

           4                    At this time I came, I was working as 

           5             an undercover investigator for Dr. Levy 

           6             Brown, Commissioner Levy Brown, and working 

           7             with Dinkins, but before that I was working 

           8             undercover for Koch, Mayor Koch, and it was 

           9             my organization that informed them that 

          10             there was too much robbing of educational 

          11             money in the Board of Ed. 

          12                    And this is very important and I have 

          13             a video on this, showing how great we were 

          14             doing, and these organizations came.  

          15             There's too much corruption in the mayoral 

          16             administration for him to have anything to 

          17             do with our Board of Education, let alone 

          18             instruct us what to do.  There's too much 

          19             corruption and we have no business having a 

          20             lawyer as a doggone Chancellor in the school 

          21             system.  That was totally wrong.  It messed 

          22             up  the whole agenda. 

          23                    This is a video, a cassette, a CD 

          24             showing district 13 at work.  I have a court 

          25             case, 691/85 where we donated seven billion 




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           2             dollars to the Board of Education and never 

           3             received it, because their political 

           4             corruption arena hid it.  I duly demand of 

           5             this board to investigate that settlement of 

           6             691/85 out of Civil Court which was a 

           7             Supreme Court file of where money was being 

           8             robbed from the Board of Education that was 

           9             stolen from the school boards.  And has been 

          10             hidden. 

          11                    Corruption.  This Mayor is involved 

          12             in that corruption also, and we are bringing 

          13             charges against Bloomberg for trying  to 

          14             come and remove a school board --

          15                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    

          16             Mr. Williamson.

          17                    MR. WILLIAMSON:    -- that he's 

          18             supposed to come to and say, as far as the 

          19             City Charter's concerned, the --

          20                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    

          21             Mr. Williamson.

          22                    MR. WILLIAMSON:    He did not come 

          23             through the City Charter.  He went to 

          24             Albany.  Where do he get the authority to 

          25             violate the City Charter and go over the 




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           2             community school board head?  We are elected 

           3             and we had no such thing as no select.  We 

           4             are not going under a select system that  --

           5                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Dr. Williamson,  

           6             we appreciate that.

           7                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    We're going 

           8             to have to ask you to conclude.

           9                    MR. WILLIAMSON:    I would like to 

          10             close with saying one thing, please, please 

          11             review this video showing district 13 doing 

          12             their job.  Please investigate this case.  

          13             There is corruption behind this and that's 

          14             all it is.  We have the answers and you'll 

          15             have the answers.  You're beautiful people 

          16             and I know you know what's going on.

          17                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Dr. Williamson, 

          18             we appreciate your testimony.  Some of it 

          19             may be a little bit beyond our scope, but if 

          20             you would leave the videos, we'll make sure 

          21             that the members view it and we take to 

          22             heart your testimony very much.

          23                    MR. WILLIAMSON:    Pleasure.

          24                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We thank you for 

          25             being here, sir.




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           2                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.  

           3             Our next speaker is Stuart Balberg, member 

           4             of school board 17. 

           5                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Just again for 

           6             the edification for people who may not have 

           7             been here this morning, we have to try to 

           8             keep the testimony to five minutes.  We 

           9             still have over 70 people who wish to 

          10             testify.  So I will ask you to keep your 

          11             testimony to five minutes, and if you're 

          12             running close to that, I will give you a 

          13             little gentle reminder to please begin to 

          14             conclude.  We don't do this to preempt 

          15             anyone, but just so that we can hear from 

          16             everyone.  Good afternoon, sir.

          17                    MR. BALBERG:    Good afternoon.  My 

          18             name is Stuart A. Balberg.  I'm a member of 

          19             school board 17 in Crown heights.  I'm a 

          20             member of the Lubavitch Synagogue.  I'm a 

          21             former conservative district leader in the 

          22             43rd A.D.  I'm speaking pro-school boards. 

          23                    35 years ago, growing up on 

          24             Mrs. Thomson's block, I was so inspired by 

          25             the local school board as to embark on the 




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           2             career of political and education activism.  

           3             Why?  That board's borders stretched out to 

           4             include Senator Padavan's neighborhood, and 

           5             a slate led by an Orthodox Rabbi and a 

           6             Catholic Priest got elected.  They proceeded 

           7             to expunge the school libraries of books 

           8             with no redeeming educational value.  

           9             Dumbed-down and pornographic books were 

          10             supplanted by higher-standard materials. 

          11                    Later in life I moved to Crown 

          12             Heights, the citadel of African, Caribbean 

          13             and Jewish culture, and learned rabbinics at 

          14             the feet of Grand Rabbi Schneerson, the 

          15             Lubavitcher Rabbi, and went about to 

          16             implement spiritual, Godly objectives in the 

          17             field of public education -- not that the 

          18             orthodox are consumers of the system  -- 

          19             we're clearly not  -- but rather, because we 

          20             have a fiduciary stake as taxpayers, and a 

          21             common moral stake, as brethren to those 

          22             condemned to public mis-education, and 

          23             subsequently, failure and social malaise. 

          24                    Let's ask ourselves: What is the 

          25             scope of the educational morass?  Is it a 




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           2             New York-bred illness?  Does it require the 

           3             mere tightening and loosening of a few 

           4             bolts?  No, and no.  It's a national 

           5             disgrace in front of the rest of civilized 

           6             society.  It took our present and a bunch of 

           7             dead terrorists to wake up this country.  As 

           8             King Solomon said, "Train a child according 

           9             to his way, and when he ages, he shall not 

          10             stray." 

          11                    The Assembly's efforts 

          12             notwithstanding, we Republican-Conservatives 

          13             have no intention of dragging New York's 

          14             schools down to the level of those in 

          15             Arkansas.  We thank God that Judd Gregg 

          16             chairs the US Senate Education Committee.  

          17             To paraphrase my mentor, Mike Long, "Judd 

          18             Gregg's gonna put the fear of God back in 

          19             the schools and in their administrators."

          20                    Let the truth be told.  Private and 

          21             parochial schools are successful at turning 

          22             out scholars, and public schools are not.  

          23             Not by a mile.  That's why the position of 

          24             Chancellor is a dead-end job.  Let Mr. Klein 

          25             deny his own projections, which he deeps 




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           2             secret, but I've seen.  In two years, only a 

           3             handful of public schools will be passable.  

           4             I know, because my district is one of that 

           5             handful.  We're destined to rank four or 

           6             five out of 32.  All the rest are going to 

           7             plunge into the proverbial netherworld, 

           8             thanks to the shameful Warren Supreme 

           9             Court's so-called decision to deprive 

          10             Americans of their God given, inalienable 

          11             rights of Freedom of Religion, and to 

          12             deprive us of government of, by and for the 

          13             people.  Not of, by and for the NEA. 

          14                    When I first came into office, 

          15             district 17 had a 20-year history of ranking 

          16             lowest in Brooklyn.  Subsequently, we 

          17             prodded and encouraged our superintendent to 

          18             provide the basics:  Discipline, respect for 

          19             each other's religion, decorum, attendance, 

          20             and the teaching of our native traditions 

          21             and religions, of which we have over 100 

          22             cultures.  We know how to grow Africans, but 

          23             many of those in the Educrat Party don't.  

          24             So, when they move into your neighborhood, 

          25             you're going to fail to educate them.  For 




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           2             shame.  And we succeeded. 

           3                    The paradigm of depriving an 

           4             African-American of his religious and 

           5             cultural values, just as denying an Asian or 

           6             Caucasian his, is akin to feeding a child on 

           7             white bread devoid of vitamins.  That's why 

           8             we, on our own, voted to implement a Moment 

           9             of Silence Meditation, why we are the first 

          10             district to mandate uniforms, why we don't 

          11             teach our kids to hate Boy Scouts or to read 

          12             how Daddy wears a dress or Heather has two 

          13             mommies.  No fuzzy math and no 

          14             test-standards lowering here. 

          15                    Instead of going to war against the 

          16             current functioning spirit of local 

          17             governance, which structure costs next to 

          18             nothing, we wish our State Senate's 

          19             Republican friends in New York's delegation 

          20             would celebrate our diverse religious and 

          21             cultural values and enhance them by giving 

          22             boards backup, that means, to respect our 

          23             parochialism. 

          24                    If some boards dissent and have it 

          25             their way, then, more power to them.  Their 




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           2             failures will be recompensed and they'll cry 

           3             out to God, "Why didn't we follow the course 

           4             of the Crown Heights Board?"

           5                    So I call on Senator Golden to 

           6             rethink his current stance join the 

           7             Republican-inspired pro-school board 

           8             bandwagon.  I call on Senator Padavan, in 

           9             recognition that he got his governance 

          10             vis-a-vis superintendents, to let the rest 

          11             of the system intact.  It's a matter of the 

          12             survival of the values of pocket 

          13             neighborhoods.  It's why 1,250 Jews and 90 

          14             God-fearing Africans, including James E. 

          15             Davis and Myrtle Whitmore, one rainy day, 

          16             chose to vote for me.  Thank you.

          17                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We thank you 

          18             very much for your testimony, Mr. Balberg, 

          19             for being here and sharing your thoughts 

          20             with us this afternoon.

          21                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Charles 

          22             Parrocki, manager, Early Childhood Strategic 

          23             Group.

          24                    MR. PARROCKI:   Good afternoon. Thank 

          25             you for the opportunity to testify today.  I 




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           2             want to address the link between early 

           3             education and school governance reform.  The 

           4             Early Childhood Strategic Group is a 

           5             partnership of 20 organizations committed to 

           6             creating a strong early education system in 

           7             New York City.  The base of this system is 

           8             the universal pre-kindergarten program.  

           9             Either as it is provided in public schools 

          10             or in community-based organizations, where 

          11             it is often linked to other programs like 

          12             Head Start, child care or special education, 

          13             to provide full-day services to children. 

          14                    These early education programs are 

          15             the foundation tier of public education.  

          16             The contribution they make to the school 

          17             system is that they ensure that children 

          18             receive the basket of learning skills, the 

          19             cognitive, sensory, motor and social 

          20             emotional skills needed by children to 

          21             succeed in school and life. 

          22                    These skills are best learned as the 

          23             brain is developing.  75 percent of the 

          24             brain is developed by age five.  In New York 

          25             City, the delivery of early education 




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           2             programs depends upon a diverse delivery 

           3             system, including the Department of Health, 

           4             the Agency for Child Development, Head 

           5             Start, the State Education Department, 

           6             parochial schools, over 600 community-based 

           7             organizations, and this team provides 

           8             universal pre-K to 44,000 children, four 

           9             year olds. 

          10                    Universal pre-K in New York City is 

          11             one the greatest education success stories 

          12             in the country.  Yet while it is 

          13             administered by the Department of Education, 

          14             it depends for its implementation upon the 

          15             collaboration of all these other 

          16             stakeholders. 

          17                    In the reform of school governance, 

          18             we therefore request that the task force 

          19             look closely at the process that has 

          20             developed with universal pre-K to create a 

          21             strong, early education foundation for our 

          22             children. 

          23                    We interviewed over 7,500 parents as 

          24             to what they thought about the universal 

          25             pre-K program.  98 percent of the parents 




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           2             interviewed that had children in universal 

           3             pre-K said that they strongly supported the 

           4             program.  That they felt welcomed in the 

           5             programs.  That they would recommend this 

           6             program to other parents. 

           7                    These early education programs 

           8             provide the classrooms in which children, 

           9             parents, schools and community members come 

          10             together each day to ensure the educational 

          11             success of our children.  The reason that 

          12             universal pre-K has been such a success is 

          13             because these partnerships have been built, 

          14             and they've been built at local school 

          15             district level.  For community-based 

          16             organizations, it is here that the early 

          17             education strategies are made by these 

          18             partners.  Contracts are signed.  Budgets 

          19             are determined.  Professional development 

          20             strategies shared.  Transition strategies 

          21             for the children moving from community-based 

          22             settings to the big schools.  The decisions 

          23             are made here. 

          24                    It is also at this level in these 

          25             programs that parental involvement is the 




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           2             greatest.  In considering parent involvement 

           3             in school governance, here is the place to 

           4             begin, the working relationship with 

           5             parents.  It is also very important that the 

           6             local voices of city agencies, universal 

           7             pre-K advisory board and other relevant 

           8             CBOs, especially those that provide 

           9             universal pre-K services, continue to have a 

          10             partnership relationship with the new 

          11             governance structure at the local level. 

          12                    We therefore request that the task 

          13             force ensure that the new structure be aware 

          14             of and encourage representation from these 

          15             early education partners.  Members of the 

          16             Early Childhood Strategic Group believe that 

          17             this is a vital issue that must be seriously 

          18             considered and a vital link that must be 

          19             made in considering a new local governance 

          20             structure. 

          21                    We no longer live in a K through 12 

          22             reality.  We live in a UPK through 12 

          23             reality.  And herein lies the opportunity to 

          24             ensure that there is meaningful parental and 

          25             community participation in the community 




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           2             school district governance structure.  Thank 

           3             you.

           4                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, thank you 

           5             very much, Mr. Parrocki.  You and I have had 

           6             some interaction over the past number of 

           7             years, and certainly I can tell you that 

           8             this task force, the members of this task 

           9             force fully appreciate the value of early 

          10             childhood education, especially universal 

          11             pre-K, and to the extent that that falls 

          12             with our jurisdiction as we make 

          13             recommendations, you can be sure that that 

          14             appreciation for early childhood education 

          15             is felt very strongly here.  So we thank you 

          16             for your testimony.

          17                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Robin Brown 

          18             has one question.

          19                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Excuse me.

          20                    MS. BROWN:   Just one comment.  I 

          21             also would like to say thank you.  Since we 

          22             worked on a number of different little 

          23             committees together, and the role that you 

          24             do and the work that you do, especially in 

          25             terms of finding monies to support universal 




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           2             pre-K, but one thing that sticks out and 

           3             comes to mind thinking about Super Start and 

           4             pre-K, can you just talk about how you go 

           5             about engaging parents in terms of 

           6             supporting the programs, in terms of 

           7             supporting the children and actually feeling 

           8             good, because when you do talk to the 

           9             parents, the first thing they will tell you, 

          10             in spite of everything else, even if it's a 

          11             school-based pre-K program, that they love 

          12             their pre-K program.  Can you just expand on 

          13             how you get parents to participate and how 

          14             you get parents to interact with teachers 

          15             there?

          16                    MR. PARROCKI:    Well, on an 

          17             advocacy level, we've tried to bring parents 

          18             together through parent organizations.  This 

          19             hadn't been very successful because it's 

          20             only one year of school and parents are 

          21             concerned about the entire  -- so what we 

          22             did is we actually joined forces with the 

          23             Alliance For Quality Education, in which 

          24             many parents and parent organizations are 

          25             involved to promote, you know, a reformed 




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           2             school system, an improved school system. 

           3                    At the local level, programs, early 

           4             education programs are required to have 

           5             parent involvement in them.  The parents 

           6             want to be involved.  They don't want to let 

           7             their children just go into this big world 

           8             alone.  So it's the place where the parents 

           9             and the schools, and you know, the advocates 

          10             meet, and in those sorts of situations, 

          11             we've held special events for parents.  

          12             We'll create art gallery shows of the 

          13             children's work and invite parents in and 

          14             then talk about some of the issues involved 

          15             in early education. 

          16                    Also, the Department of Early 

          17             Childhood Development at the Board of Ed has 

          18             created a parent advisory universal pre-K 

          19             committee, so we also work with them.

          20                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We thank you 

          21             very much for your hard work and your 

          22             effective work.

          23                    MR. PARROCKI:    Thank you.

          24                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.  

          25             David Zweibel, executive vice president for 




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           2             Government and Public Affairs, Aqudath 

           3             Israel of America.

           4                    MR. ZWEIBEL:    Thank you very much.  

           5             Good afternoon.  Mr. Co-chairman, Madam 

           6             Co-Chairlady, and members of this 

           7             distinguished panel and task force.  I'm 

           8             David Zweibel, I'm executive vice president 

           9             for Government and Public Affairs at Aqudath 

          10             Israel of America.  We're a national 

          11             orthodox Jewish organization.  And here in 

          12             the city, among our other tasks, we 

          13             represent the interests of the large network 

          14             of Jewish schools in  -- actually around the 

          15             United States.  Here in New York City alone 

          16             there are approximately 240 such schools 

          17             across the city educating over 75,000 

          18             children, and together with private and 

          19             non-public schools that are operated by 

          20             members of other faith groups and 

          21             non-sectarian and non-public schools, there 

          22             are altogether approximately 275,000 

          23             children of New York City who are educated 

          24             in these institutions.  That represents more 

          25             than 20 percent of the entire school-aged 




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           2             population in this great city who are 

           3             educated in non-public schools, and if the 

           4             early childhood community seeks to have some 

           5             sort of input into the governance process in 

           6             education, and if they're a forgotten 

           7             community in this entire process, I wonder 

           8             about the non-public school community. 

           9                    Non-public schools by definition are 

          10             not public schools, but nonetheless, there's 

          11             a great deal of interaction between the 

          12             non-public schools and public authorities.  

          13             That occurs at the level of the central 

          14             Department of Education, which administers 

          15             many of the federal, state and local 

          16             programs in which non-public schools 

          17             participate, and it also occurs at the 

          18             levels of the local school districts, which 

          19             administer other programs, special ed 

          20             programs, Immigrant education, pre-K 

          21             programs, which we just heard about those, 

          22             learning technology grants.  These require 

          23             an ongoing interface between the non-public 

          24             school community and education officials at 

          25             the city and district levels. 




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           2                    And because many of these issues 

           3             raise sensitive church, state concerns, that 

           4             interface is often quite complex and 

           5             delicate.  From our perspective in the 

           6             non-public school community, the previous 

           7             school board structure, while it had many 

           8             problems, also had certain advantages.  At 

           9             least school board members were ultimately 

          10             accountable to their local communities 

          11             through the democratic electoral process, 

          12             and that often proved helpful in ensuring 

          13             that there would be sensitivity to the 

          14             concerns of the non-public schools within 

          15             those districts as well.

          16                    With the elected school boards now on 

          17             their way out, though, nobody who has any 

          18             responsibility for the formulation of or 

          19             implementation of education policy, other 

          20             than the Mayor himself, will be directly 

          21             accountable to the broad public.  And for 

          22             us, that represents a serious area of 

          23             concern.  And the concern is compounded when 

          24             you look at the composition of the new 13 

          25             member city-wide Board of Education.  I'm 




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           2             not sure what it's new title is.  Under the 

           3             statute it was still called the Board of 

           4             Education. 

           5                    The composition of that now includes 

           6             five representatives who are appointed by 

           7             the borough presidents around the city, and 

           8             each those representatives has to be a 

           9             parent.  A parent in a public school by 

          10             virtue of the statute.  There is no 

          11             representation whatsoever reserved for 

          12             anybody from the non-public school community 

          13             on this board.  And so that tends to stack 

          14             this board with interests that may not be 

          15             sensitive to the concerns of the non-public 

          16             school community. 

          17                    So I think there are two concrete 

          18             steps that you might want to consider in how 

          19             best to ensure that a quarter of a million 

          20             children in this city will have their 

          21             interests represented somehow and 

          22             articulated in the new governance process 

          23             that is being created. 

          24                    First at the local school district 

          25             level.  Mayor Bloomberg spoke yesterday 




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           2             about the importance of creating parent 

           3             advisory councils, and any such plan ought 

           4             to include that non-public school parents 

           5             will also be included on these councils. 

           6                    It ought not be reserved exclusively 

           7             for parents of children in public schools.  

           8             To ensure adequate representation, we would 

           9             suggest that a set number of seats on these 

          10             councils be reserved for non-public school 

          11             parents to reflect the percentage of 

          12             non-public school children in each district. 

          13                    We think that non-public school seats 

          14             should be apportioned to ensure that each of 

          15             the major groups that have non-public 

          16             schools, whether they be of religious faith 

          17             groups or of non-secretarian groups, be 

          18             adequately represented. 

          19                    The same concept ought to apply at 

          20             the central Board of Ed level.  We think the 

          21             legislature ought to go back to the drawing 

          22             board and in creating a central Board of 

          23             Education, recommend that the law be amended 

          24             to require appropriate non-public school 

          25             representation on the central board.  We 




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           2             ought not be frozen out of this process. 

           3                    One final note, the Mayor's new plan 

           4             would consolidate the school districts.  It 

           5             would be consolidation and centralization, 

           6             and inevitably that is likely to have a 

           7             major impact on non-public schools across 

           8             the city.

           9                    It might further dilute the voices of 

          10             parents who choose non-public schools for 

          11             their children.  We'll be speaking to the 

          12             Mayor and to the Chancellor about their plan 

          13             in the days and weeks ahead.  For now we're 

          14             not prepared to comment on it one way or the 

          15             other, but one way or the other, we need to 

          16             be involved in some way in ensuring that the 

          17             voices of these parents are heard. 

          18                    I thank you for considering our 

          19             views.  A quarter of a million children 

          20             deserve a place at the educational table.  

          21             They deserve to be heard, and we surely 

          22             count on this task force to be our ally in 

          23             ensuring that those children's voices will 

          24             not be forgotten.

          25                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Short question, 




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           2             Ms. Brown.

           3                    MS. BROWN:    I just need to be 

           4             clear.  How does this disenfranchise the 

           5             voice of non-public school parents and what 

           6             exactly or what services do you seek or do 

           7             you obtain through the Board of Ed?  I just 

           8             need to be clear on that.

           9                    MR. ZWEIBEL:    Let me respond to the 

          10             second question first.  Through the central 

          11             Board of Ed, there are a number of programs 

          12             which are -- whether they be federal 

          13             programs or state programs, that are 

          14             administered, and children in non-public 

          15             schools are entitled to those services.  For 

          16             example, the Title One program which is the 

          17             remedial education program funded by the 

          18             federal government.  A number of programs 

          19             that the state legislature through the good 

          20             work of your co-chairman, which ensure that 

          21             there is equitable participation by children 

          22             in non-public schools, whether they be the 

          23             textbook program or the software program or 

          24             the library program or whether we speak 

          25             about transportation services, which are 




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           2             available to children in non-public schools 

           3             on an equitable basis. 

           4                    All of those are administered at the 

           5             central board level.  At the local school 

           6             district level, you have a number of other 

           7             programs.  Children who require special ed 

           8             services and are enrolled in non-public 

           9             schools are entitled to certain services 

          10             that are administered ultimately at the 

          11             local school district level. 

          12                    There's the pre-K program, the 

          13             universal pre-K program that we spoke about 

          14             earlier, Immigrant services.  So both at the 

          15             local level and at the central level, there 

          16             are many, many programs that are designed by 

          17             law to ensure equitable participation by 

          18             children who are enrolled in non-public 

          19             school. 

          20                    In fact, I would say that there are, 

          21             you know, in the quarter of million children 

          22             that I spoke of earlier who are enrolled in 

          23             the city's non-public schools, many of them 

          24             do benefit one way or another through 

          25             services that are coordinated and 




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           2             administered by both the central and local 

           3             school districts.  So there's a lot of 

           4             interface in that regard. 

           5                    And number two, as far as your first 

           6             question is concerned, you know, the issue 

           7             of how would we be disenfranchised by this, 

           8             and when you use the word "this," I assume 

           9             you're referring to the cutting out of the 

          10             local school boards.  Again, my point simply 

          11             there was, as long as we have electoral 

          12             accountability to the community, every 

          13             member of the community has an opportunity 

          14             to vote for a school board member.  That 

          15             gave us an opportunity to speak to 

          16             candidates for the school boards and say, 

          17             here are the issues that affect the 

          18             non-public schools in your district, and we 

          19             want you to take account of them, otherwise 

          20             we won't give our vote and --

          21                    MS. BROWN:    But again, just 

          22             thinking about this, people choose to send 

          23             their children to non-public schools, and 

          24             then what would necessarily stop parents who 

          25             send their children to non-public schools 




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           2             from perhaps lobbying the State Assembly or 

           3             lobbying the State Senate or the City 

           4             Council for that matter for services for 

           5             children in non-public schools?

           6                    MR. ZWEIBEL:    Indeed, we will.  We 

           7             have.  We will.  And that's not on the table 

           8             now, the question of whether we can lobby 

           9             our legislative officials, but here we're 

          10             speaking about educational policy, which is 

          11             determined and implemented at the school 

          12             district level, at the central board level, 

          13             and that's not the legislative level, and 

          14             it's very important, as we have discovered 

          15             over the years, to have input into that 

          16             process, because from the place of 

          17             legislation to the point of implementation, 

          18             and even developing policy for that 

          19             implementation, is often a very distant 

          20             road, and we need to have that type of 

          21             ongoing input and interface with our school 

          22             board, school districts and Department of 

          23             Education at the city level.

          24                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We thank you 

          25             very much, Mr. Zweibel, Aqudath Israel of 




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           2             America and other organizations that speak 

           3             for the children who attend non-public 

           4             schools are very important.  Your 

           5             characterization of the fact that there are 

           6             quarter of a million or more children who 

           7             attend non-public settings is a very 

           8             important point, and we certainly appreciate 

           9             your being here and representing the needs 

          10             of so many children who we all care about as 

          11             well.  So thank you very much.

          12                    MR. ZWEIBEL:    Thank you so much.

          13                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Next is Gary 

          14             Popkin, a member of community school board 

          15             15, and he will be followed by public 

          16             advocate, the Honorable Betsy Gotbaum.

          17                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Before Mr. 

          18             Popkin testifies, if there is anyone in the 

          19             room who slipped through our very 

          20             sophisticated security and didn't sign up, 

          21             if you wish to testify, we just want to make 

          22             sure that we do hear from you, but in order 

          23             to hear from you, you need to make sure that 

          24             you signed a card at the front of the door.

          25                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Good 




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           2             afternoon.

           3                    MR. POPKIN:   Hello.  And thank you 

           4             very much for giving me this opportunity to 

           5             testify.  I want to make it clear that I am 

           6             speaking as an individual.  I'm a member of 

           7             community school board 15, but the school 

           8             board did not discuss the testimony that 

           9             we're going to present here.  There is no 

          10             consensus on the district 15 board.

          11                    What I'm going to suggest is a 

          12             radical governance plan.  My idea is why 

          13             institute a brand new, untested governance 

          14             plan that's right out of the head of the 

          15             Mayor and the Chancellor, which might take 

          16             many, many years to iron out, get all the 

          17             kinks out.  Why not use a governance plan 

          18             that has shown that it works fabulously 

          19             well, for many hundreds of years, maybe 

          20             thousands of years, that it works very well 

          21             for almost all children. 

          22                    The Department of Education now 

          23             collects around 12 billion dollars a year 

          24             from the taxpayer to service about one 

          25             million New York City school children to the 




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           2             tune of $12,000 per child.  And what if the 

           3             taxpayer said, "Why do we need all this 

           4             aggravation regarding public education?  Why 

           5             don't we just give each child $12,000 and 

           6             say go to private school?"

           7                    Now this situation is not unique to 

           8             New York City.  The United States now spends 

           9             so much money on public education, that 

          10             every child in the country could, for that 

          11             price, attend any, but the most expensive, 

          12             private school.  What would the world look 

          13             like if we just gave to each child the money 

          14             that the taxpayer already spends on them?  

          15             Well, suddenly, many hundreds of former 

          16             public school buildings would be empty.  

          17             Hundreds of new private schools would have 

          18             to spring up to meet the new demand.  They 

          19             could rent the newly emptied buildings from 

          20             the city for $1 for year. 

          21                    There would be thousands of new job 

          22             openings for principals, assistant 

          23             principals and other administrators, and 10s 

          24             of thousands of new job openings for 

          25             teachers.  The best teachers would command 




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           2             premium salaries, as schools competed for 

           3             them.  And the worst teachers might be out, 

           4             and the average quality of the New York City 

           5             teacher core would be improved. 

           6                    Parents would be hugely better off, 

           7             as they could now just select the school 

           8             that best suited them and their children.  A 

           9             school that emphasized academics or music or 

          10             art or creative writing or sports or a 

          11             nurturing school instead of a competitive 

          12             one, and no longer had to endure endless 

          13             arguments with other parents at PTA 

          14             meetings.  Ultimately fruitless arguments 

          15             ignored by unresponsive and frustrated 

          16             school administrators, unable to satisfy all 

          17             parents at once. 

          18                    The only people worse off would be 

          19             the thousands of former paper pushers at the 

          20             central Board of Education who would now 

          21             have to find productive jobs and contribute 

          22             to the economy of New York City, instead of 

          23             being a drag on it.  To paraphrase Thomas 

          24             Jefferson, "That governance is best that is 

          25             no governance at all." 




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           2                    So to sum up, I suggest that we use 

           3             largely the same faculty and staff we have 

           4             now, in the same buildings we have now, 

           5             funded by the public.  So this is true 

           6             public education, but that we adopt the 

           7             private school governance model in it 

           8             entirety.  A model that is now serving a 

           9             quarter of a million New York City school 

          10             children fabulously well. 

          11                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, 

          12             Mr. Popkin, you've given us a different 

          13             slant on things here.  And I guess your 

          14             proposal can be summed up as capitalism.  

          15             What a revolutionary thought.  But the only 

          16             problem that I have, in all candor and 

          17             seriousness, is that the mission and the 

          18             mandate of this task force only extends to 

          19             recreating school boards, not recreating the 

          20             funding structure and recreating basically 

          21             the premise of the delivery of the education 

          22             service. 

          23                    So I don't wish to argue the merits 

          24             one way or the other of your proposal.  I 

          25             think it is breath-taking in its simplicity.  




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           2             Unfortunately, it's something that this body 

           3             does not have the latitude or the mandate to 

           4             consider.  Our mandate is to restructure and 

           5             recreate the community representation of the 

           6             school boards.  So I think your proposal 

           7             will probably have to wait for another 

           8             hearing on a slightly different subject, but 

           9             notwithstanding that, we certainly 

          10             appreciate your strong views here.

          11                    MR. POPKIN:    And I certainly hope 

          12             that the esteemed members of the state 

          13             legislature will take  -- put this idea in 

          14             the backs of their heads, outside of the 

          15             task force.  Outside of the mandate of the 

          16             task force. 

          17                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    I think if 

          18             Mr. Zweibel hasn't left yet, the two of you 

          19             might want to talk before the day's over.

          20                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you for 

          21             your service on community school board 15.

          22                    MR. POPKIN:    Thank you.  The 

          23             Honorable Betty Gotbaum.

          24                    MS. GOTBAUM:   Good afternoon. How 

          25             are you all?  Nice to see you.  Many of my 




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           2             friends up there.  And you have done a noble 

           3             job, and I want to thank you all for 

           4             allowing me to speak.  Assemblyman Sanders, 

           5             first of all, for your kind offer to allow 

           6             me to make a presentation, and I'd like to 

           7             say very quickly that sometimes it seems 

           8             that everyone has a voice in our schools 

           9             perhaps except the parents.  And I think 

          10             that it's probably been said 100 times that 

          11             who knows better if the schools are serving 

          12             children well but parents.  And I think it's 

          13             true and I think it's probably the most 

          14             difficult thing to try to figure out how to 

          15             get parent involvement, and from every 

          16             expert I ever talked to, it's probably the 

          17             most difficult thing. 

          18                    But today I wanted to talk a little 

          19             bit about how we could replace the community 

          20             school boards.  As you well know, the Mayor 

          21             has asked to do away the community school 

          22             boards, because he felt they were not 

          23             serving the schools, parents or children, 

          24             and I think there's a lot to be said for 

          25             this view. 




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           2                    I applaud the work of Mayor Bloomberg 

           3             and Chancellor Klein and what they have done 

           4             so far at the Department of Education, and I 

           5             certainly support the initiatives that were 

           6             outlined yesterday with a caveat in my own 

           7             head that this is going to be a very 

           8             difficult thing to implement, but I believe 

           9             all of us are here to try to help that and 

          10             to make it happen. 

          11                    I think parental involvement -- going 

          12             back to my original statement -- is probably 

          13             the most difficult thing to accomplish, and 

          14             it is a very important aspect of any 

          15             replacement for the community school boards, 

          16             because they must be responsive to parental 

          17             concerns. 

          18                    We also want this new system to be 

          19             extremely transparent so that parents really 

          20             understand decisions that are being made 

          21             about how their children learn.  I've been a 

          22             teacher.  I'm a parent.  And I'm convinced 

          23             that the best advocate a child can have is 

          24             the parent. 

          25                    Children with parents involved in 




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           2             schools are more likely to get good grades, 

           3             attend school regularly, behave well in 

           4             school, earn a diploma and go to college. 

           5                    This means parental involvement 

           6             should be our number one priority.  I know 

           7             that my friend Freddy Ferrer, the former 

           8             borough president of the Bronx, testified 

           9             before your task force that until now, many 

          10             schools lacked a support structure to 

          11             encourage parental involvement. 

          12                    And yesterday the Mayor proposed a 

          13             parent coordinator and a parent engagement 

          14             board in each school.  I found that plan 

          15             somewhat interesting.  The City Council 

          16             proposal also made an intriguing suggestion 

          17             with local advisory panels made up mostly of 

          18             parents who were selected by Councilmembers 

          19             and borough presidents. 

          20                    But I believe the legislature needs 

          21             to explore even more options.  We must make 

          22             sure that district officials, principals and 

          23             teachers are trained in how to form 

          24             meaningful working relationships with 

          25             parents, and that they be held accountable 




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           2             for efforts to reach out to parents. 

           3                    Along with classroom size, test 

           4             scores and attendance, success at parental 

           5             involvement should be an indicator taken 

           6             into account when judging how well a school 

           7             is doing. 

           8                    The city needs structure outside the 

           9             sphere of the Department of Education to 

          10             watch over and to act as a watchdog over 

          11             schools on behalf of the parents.  Both my 

          12             office, the public advocate's office and the 

          13             independent budget office, provide examples 

          14             of how such a watchdog organization could 

          15             work. 

          16                    The Mayor's proposal so far keeps the 

          17             parental role under the control of the 

          18             Department of Education, but we need a 

          19             system of checks and balances, a parent 

          20             advocate independent of the Board of 

          21             Education.  And in the same way that the 

          22             public advocate is independent of the Mayor 

          23             and members of the state legislature are 

          24             independent of the Governor. 

          25                    Parents must have a place to go when 




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           2             the red tape of the system fails them.  

           3             Every day my office hears about problems 

           4             parents face as a result of the bureaucracy 

           5             of the school system.  We often here that 

           6             the Department of Education or individual 

           7             schools do not try hard to explain their 

           8             decisions to many parents. 

           9                    Recently a mother from Manhattan 

          10             called us.  Her six year old son was sent 

          11             home from school a few weeks before the end 

          12             of the semester with a note saying he was in 

          13             the wrong school and should immediately 

          14             start attending a different school than the 

          15             one he was zoned for.  No one explained to 

          16             her how this decision was made and why he 

          17             couldn't wait until the end of the term. 

          18                    The problem solver of the 

          19             ombudswoman, actually, it was a woman in my 

          20             office, called the district.  Persuaded the 

          21             superintendent that the child should stay in 

          22             school until the end of the semester, and 

          23             also that the mother deserved an explanation 

          24             of why the child had to change schools. 

          25                    Parents like the mother of that six 




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           2             year old often feel helpless in the 

           3             bureaucracy of the system.  For the last 

           4             several months, my office has been 

           5             collecting surveys, asking parents of their 

           6             children concerns. 

           7                    From the availability of meals in 

           8             schools to the safety of kids in schools.  

           9             I've raised private money, private funds 

          10             through the Fund For Public Advocacy so that 

          11             we could public a guide for parents based on 

          12             the problems that we are hearing about. 

          13                    Many of you probably know that the 

          14             Children's Advocacy Project has done a 

          15             fabulous guide on the web, but many parents 

          16             are not  -- do not have access to the web.  

          17             So what we're doing is we're using all the 

          18             information that is already on the Web and 

          19             plus new information that we're gathering 

          20             from parents, and we're producing a guide, 

          21             not about what the Department of Education 

          22             thinks parents should know, but solutions to 

          23             problems that the parents are actually 

          24             struggling with.  Solutions that they have 

          25             asked us about and solutions that we will be 




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           2             helping them to find out. 

           3                    An independent parental advocate 

           4             organization should do more than just look 

           5             at individual complaints.  Sometimes 

           6             parental complaints lead to uncovering large 

           7             problems in the whole system.  Recently I 

           8             heard from some parents that their children 

           9             were being forced into GED programs, instead 

          10             of being allowed to earn high school 

          11             degrees. 

          12                    We conducted an investigation that 

          13             shows that schools are pushing out many 

          14             struggling students to improve overall test 

          15             scores.  Rather than be judged as failing, 

          16             sometimes schools get rid of students who 

          17             score poorly on tests.  We have talked to 

          18             the Department of Education, and we want 

          19             them to improve schools.  We want to make 

          20             sure that these struggling students don't 

          21             slip through the cracks. 

          22                    Last week when the Department of 

          23             Education announced it was closing the High 

          24             School for Redirection in Brooklyn, we said 

          25             that's your prerogative, but we need to make 




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           2             sure that those kids in that school are 

           3             taken care of. 

           4                    Someone has to look out for the 

           5             parents rights in the system.  Many offices 

           6             of elected officials help parents with such 

           7             issues, but at the moment, there is no 

           8             single clearing house with the authority to 

           9             keep watch over issues of importance to 

          10             parents.  Some parent groups have proposed a 

          11             parent advocate organization with a board of 

          12             trustees and public/private funding.  

          13             Perhaps the individual parent 

          14             representatives in schools could report to 

          15             the city-wide parents organization.

          16                    Now is our opportunity to make sure 

          17             that the new structure brings parental 

          18             involvement in schools to a higher level 

          19             than ever before.

          20                    I am grateful to the task force for 

          21             giving me the opportunity to express my 

          22             concerns and ideas.  And I would welcome the 

          23             opportunity to help in this endeavor with 

          24             parental involvement.

          25                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, we thank 




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           2             you so much, Madam Public Advocate Betsy 

           3             Gotbaum, for being here.  I think there may 

           4             be a question or two before we say good-bye.  

           5             Assemblyman Rivera.

           6                    MR. RIVERA:   Good afternoon, 

           7             Ms. Gotbaum.  How are you?

           8                    MS. GOTBAUM:   Assemblyman Rivera, 

           9             how are you?

          10                    MR. RIVERA:    Good.  You intimated 

          11             in your testimony that you favor an 

          12             ombudsman, a kind of ombudsman.  Do you 

          13             think that this ombudsman would be 

          14             well-served working out of your office?  

          15             Would that be a recommendation that you 

          16             would make?

          17                    MS. GOTBAUM:    Yes.  I was trying 

          18             to be subtle about it, but Peter, you're too 

          19             smart.  I failed entirely.  Yes, I do.  I 

          20             think that the structure of the offices 

          21             there, whoever's the public advocate, is 

          22             elected city-wide.  I think the office is as 

          23             independent as it can be.  I think it can be  

          24             -- this could even help it be a little more 

          25             independent, and I think that's exactly what 




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           2             you really need, is independent an office as 

           3             possible.

           4                    MR. RIVERA:    What prevents you 

           5             from doing that right now?

           6                    MS. GOTBAUM:    Well, we are doing 

           7             it right now.

           8                    MR. RIVERA:    You issued a report 

           9             not to long ago, if I'm not mistaken.

          10                    MS. GOTBAUM:    Yes.  Several 

          11             reports.  Yes, we are doing it right now.  

          12             As I said, I've raised quite a bit of 

          13             private money to do this guide for parents, 

          14             so the model is there.  The not for profit 

          15             is there, and I would welcome the 

          16             opportunity to be able to  -- to help you 

          17             all in some way with this effort.

          18                    MR. RIVERA:    Do you think you need 

          19             legislation to be able to do this?

          20                    MS. GOTBAUM:    I think so.

          21                    MR. RIVERA:    In what sense?  Would 

          22             that be City Council legislation, not state 

          23             legislation, right?

          24                    MS. GOTBAUM:    I think  -- isn't 

          25             the state going to decide how the community 




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           2             school boards will be replaced and wouldn't 

           3             this be a part of that?

           4                    MR. RIVERA:    Do we have the 

           5             authority to direct the public advocate in 

           6             legislation?

           7                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Sure.

           8                    MS. GOTBAUM:    That would be very 

           9             helpful.

          10                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    There are 

          11             actually some cities that have a formal 

          12             ombudsman for education, and we could 

          13             probably do a little research on some of 

          14             those models.

          15                    MS. GOTBAUM:    Terri, one of the 

          16             things we had looked into was that this 

          17             would require some more work on exactly  -- 

          18             when you say look at other systems, find 

          19             other ways, I would commit to raising 

          20             private money to do that.  To try to put 

          21             that altogether.  Using advocates and people 

          22             who know a lot about those other systems.

          23                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Kee.

          24                    MS. KEE:   It sounds very 

          25             interesting.  Do you see that you have 




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           2             enough staff as it is or does it require 

           3             more funding if you were to take this on as 

           4             your office?

           5                    MS. GOTBAUM:    I think that has to 

           6             be studied in this sort of period of looking 

           7             at what is absolutely the best way to do it.  

           8             No, we don't have enough staff, although we 

           9             are trying very hard to bring in more staff 

          10             with my Fund For Public Advocacy, and this 

          11             is not a guise to get more staff.  I think 

          12             the structure exists there, and whatever 

          13             would be the best way to conduct this would 

          14             be something that we -- I would welcome to 

          15             look into, to help you look into.

          16                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Brown.

          17                    MS. BROWN:    Just thinking in terms 

          18             of an ombudsperson for parents and just 

          19             going back to the scenario that you 

          20             mentioned with the parent with the six year 

          21             old and the school telling the parent that 

          22             she would need to find another placement for 

          23             this child, what type of authority do you 

          24             feel this person would need in terms of 

          25             making decisions, or making decisions that 




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           2             are binding?  Case in point, if the parent 

           3             wanted her child to finish the year at this 

           4             particular school, how would that work in 

           5             terms of the final decision or having a 

           6             binding decision or having the authority to 

           7             override the decision that was made at that 

           8             school level?

           9                    MS. GOTBAUM:    Well, it's an 

          10             interesting question, because, you know, 

          11             when you act as an ombudsperson, woman, man 

          12             in any system, you know, you wonder what 

          13             clout do you have to get it done.  I found 

          14             in the year that I've been doing it, that 

          15             sometimes it's just a question of letting 

          16             someone know that a mistake has been made 

          17             and it's corrected very, very quickly. 

          18                    In fact, I've had tremendous success 

          19             in a lot of these individual problems just 

          20             getting things done, just because people 

          21             didn't know.  I mean, the woman didn't know 

          22             she had rights, and the school  -- actually, 

          23             in fact, the superintendent didn't 

          24             understand what had been going on. 

          25                    The actual clout of the office, that 




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           2             would probably have to come from what the 

           3             legislature decides it wants to give the 

           4             ombuds function.

           5                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, Betsy, if 

           6             you don't mind, I'll call you Betsy, we all 

           7             feel very close to you on this task force.  

           8             I think you know almost all of us on a some 

           9             kind of an individual basis.  I know that 

          10             every member of this task force joins me in 

          11             congratulating you on the work you've done 

          12             in just one year as being public advocate.  

          13             The guide you published, incidentally, I 

          14             think was an enormous resource, particularly 

          15             for parents and other community members.  It 

          16             was really a first of its kind, and I think 

          17             that is precisely the kind of information 

          18             that we have been hearing from literally 

          19             hundreds of people that they feel at a 

          20             minimum is needed.  Information to help the 

          21             ordinary person navigate their way through a 

          22             very complex educational system.  So we 

          23             thank you for that. 

          24                    We thank you for all of the hard work 

          25             that you do for the City of New York.  I 




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           2             think we all know that when you recommend 

           3             that the Office of Public Advocate can take 

           4             on this responsibility, you're talking in a 

           5             structural sense, that this would be 

           6             appropriate for the Office of the Public 

           7             Advocate, and I think it is certainly 

           8             something for this task force to consider as 

           9             we try to grapple with what functions are 

          10             best placed under what parts of the system 

          11             in the City of New York. 

          12                    But certainly, we all want to thank 

          13             you so much for being here.  Sharing your 

          14             time and your thoughts with us, and the very 

          15             effective work you've done as a public 

          16             advocate for all of the public.

          17                    MS. GOTBAUM:    Thank you.

          18                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Can I just 

          19             add, a special thank you for the work you've 

          20             done in the last year on behalf of the 

          21             children, specifically on school 

          22             construction and the high school push out, 

          23             whatever it was called, that study, which is 

          24             so interesting and thought provoking.

          25                    MS. GOTBAUM:    Thank you very much.  




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           2             I appreciate your comments.

           3                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.  

           4             Margaret Kelly, president of community 

           5             school board 15 in Brooklyn.  Is Margaret 

           6             Kelly here?  Perhaps she took a break.  Her 

           7             testimony's here.  She filled out a card.  

           8             We'll try her again in a few minutes, in 

           9             case she stepped out.  Our next speaker is 

          10             Barbara Smith-Boyd, member of community 

          11             board 13 in Brooklyn.

          12                    AUDIENCE MEMBER:    Excuse me, I just 

          13             have a quick question.  For  those of us who 

          14             can't be here the entire day and evening, 

          15             will the testimony of the various 

          16             participants be published?

          17                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Absolutely.

          18                    AUDIENCE MEMBER:    How might do we 

          19             access that?

          20                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Good question.  

          21             Steve, do you know the answer to that?

          22                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Very good 

          23             question.  The testimony is being 

          24             transcribed, so there are literally going to 

          25             be several thousands of pages of testimony 




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           2             from the five hearings.  It is being put 

           3             together now.  At some point in the next two 

           4             or three weeks, that will be available, but 

           5             obviously, because of the fact that it will 

           6             be literally thousands of pages, we will not 

           7             be able to mail it out to people.  We will 

           8             certainly, if anyone wishes to perhaps, 

           9             because my office is the easiest one to 

          10             find, if you remember my name Assemblyman 

          11             Steve Sanders, and you call our office in a 

          12             couple of weeks, we will certainly let you 

          13             know how you can see that testimony. 

          14                    As I say, because it will literally 

          15             be thousands and thousands of pages, we'll 

          16             not be able to reproduce it in any mass way, 

          17             but we will certainly make arrangements for 

          18             people to be able to review it or see it 

          19             perhaps in my office as best we can.

          20                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    And Steve, 

          21             perhaps we should explore whether we can put 

          22             it up on the Web and link it to both the 

          23             Senate and the Assembly.  That would 

          24             probably be the most efficient way to get it 

          25             out.  So we'll check on that.




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           2                    AUDIENCE MEMBER:    And if it could 

           3             be indexed.

           4                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:   Indexed.  Good 

           5             suggestion.  Especially there are five 

           6             hearings and they're not listed.

           7                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We will do our 

           8             best to make it as user friendly as we 

           9             possibly can, given the voluminous nature of 

          10             it all.

          11                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Good 

          12             afternoon.

          13                    MS. SMITH-BOYD:   Good afternoon.  My 

          14             name is Barbara Smith-Boyd.  I'm a Brooklyn 

          15             resident and currently a member of community 

          16             school board 13.  I'm also a former New York 

          17             City public school teacher who taught in 

          18             schools located in the Bedford Stuyvesant 

          19             community, and I am presently the owner of a 

          20             small business located in Ft. Green 

          21             neighborhood of Brooklyn. 

          22                    I appreciate having this opportunity 

          23             to share with you some of my recommendations 

          24             which I believe would positively affect the 

          25             delivery of educational services to children 




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           2             in my community.  The students who attend 

           3             schools in large urban communities like 

           4             school district 13 are some of the city's 

           5             most creative and resilient learners.  In 

           6             spite of the myriad of problems plaguing 

           7             urban schools, there are students who learn 

           8             well enough to move from K to 12, attend a 

           9             four-year college and enter the world of 

          10             work. 

          11                    This was the path and the outcome for 

          12             my son who received all of his primary and 

          13             secondary education in school district 13 in 

          14             the 1980s and early 1990s.  There were many 

          15             challenges as there were 30 years before 

          16             when I attended Bedford Stuyvesant public 

          17             schools.  What made the difference for my 

          18             son and for myself is that we both had 

          19             parents who believed in community 

          20             involvement in the governance of our public 

          21             educational facilities. 

          22                    My recommendations for improving the 

          23             delivery of educational services to our 

          24             children in New York City public schools are 

          25             based on the belief that a community that is 




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           2             actively and equally involved in the 

           3             delivery of these services to its schools, 

           4             will benefit from maintaining high and 

           5             achievable standards for all children. 

           6                    This requires the following:  One, 

           7             restructuring PAs, PTAs, PTCAs, giving them 

           8             an equal role in the operational structure 

           9             of the community school.  Two, redesigning 

          10             community schools so that the schools are 

          11             available to the community, if necessary, 24 

          12             hours a day, seven days a week.  Three, 

          13             establishing community education councils.  

          14             Using the boundaries of the Councilmatic 

          15             districts with authority to ensure the 

          16             delivery of quality educational services to 

          17             their neighborhood schools. 

          18                    I listened to the Mayor speak about 

          19             his new initiatives for our schools, and I 

          20             was pleased to learn that he had heard what 

          21             had been said by education activists for 

          22             more than 35 years.  The bureaucracy of 110 

          23             Livingston Street needed to be eliminated. 

          24                    Nonetheless, there are many gaps in 

          25             the new organization that he is proposing 




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           2             for the Tweed Building, and this operation 

           3             needs to be monitored by the community. 

           4                    And I just want to preface this, I 

           5             did not steal this from Betsy Gotbaum.

           6                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    And we didn't 

           7             schedule you next to each other with this in 

           8             mind.  People will understand when you read 

           9             your next paragraph.

          10                    MS. SMITH-BOYD:    My final 

          11             recommendation is the establishment of an 

          12             elected office known as the public advocate 

          13             for education, with authority to monitor the 

          14             money trail from Albany to the local 

          15             community schools.  Wasteful spending in a 

          16             unified educational system can be just as 

          17             destructive for public schools as it was 

          18             under a centralized bureaucracy or 

          19             decentralized system. 

          20                    An elected public advocate for 

          21             education can ensure that money coming in 

          22             from various sources, is directly invested 

          23             in our children so that truly there will be 

          24             no child left behind.

          25                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.




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           2                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you very 

           3             much.  I can't help but you have just 

           4             tempted me too much.  I have to ask you the 

           5             question, based on your thinking, would the 

           6             public advocate for education be appropriate 

           7             to be included in the office of public 

           8             advocate?

           9                    MS. SMITH-BOYD:     Well, the way in 

          10             which Ms. Gotbaum has said that she's been 

          11             operating, it seems feasible, but I would 

          12             really like to see it independent of her 

          13             office.  I would like to see it as a 

          14             separate office.  I have the experience of 

          15             trying to put parents in contact with 

          16             someone who can really navigate for them.  

          17             Someone who can really speak on their 

          18             behalf, and it's usually someone who knows a 

          19             lot about education that's really helpful.  

          20             I'm not sure that that office does, but I 

          21             think someone that we would elect, should 

          22             have those skills.

          23                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Okay.  

          24             Ms. Brown.

          25                    MS. BROWN:    I just have to say 




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           2             thank you to Ms. Smith-Boyd who has served 

           3             on community school district 13 school board 

           4             for four years, and my children actually 

           5             attend school in community school district 

           6             13, and between Ms. Boyd's shop  -- I'm 

           7             being a commercial here  -- on Dekalb 

           8             Avenue, she has definitely reached a lot 

           9             parents who may not necessary attend school 

          10             board meetings or PA meetings.  Parents 

          11             actually stopped in to her shop to find out 

          12             what's going on and what's the latest trend 

          13             in education.  So I would just like to say 

          14             thank you.

          15                    MS. SMITH-BOYD:   Thank you, 

          16             Ms. Brown.

          17                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We all thank you 

          18             very much. 

          19                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Le Roi Gill, 

          20             executive director of Central Brooklyn 

          21             Churches.  Good afternoon.

          22                    MR. GILL:   Good afternoon, Madam 

          23             Chair and Mr. Chairman Sanders, and to the 

          24             members of the state task force.  My name is 

          25             Le Roi Gill, and I'm the executive director 




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           2             of Central Brooklyn Churches.  It is a 

           3             community organization of 25 churches in the  

           4             communities of Crown Heights, Bedford 

           5             Stuyvesant and Ft. Green. 

           6                    And over the past three years, 

           7             Central Brooklyn Churches has been working 

           8             to build partnerships with schools in 

           9             district 13 and 16, to improve the quality 

          10             of public education.  And from the 

          11             perspective of Central Brooklyn Churches, 

          12             significant change has been difficult to 

          13             achieve, we think on large part because of 

          14             the lack of local autonomy in the 

          15             decision-making process. 

          16                    Since this task force has a duty of 

          17             recommending a governance structure to 

          18             replace community school boards, I wish to 

          19             make the following suggestions:  State 

          20             legislature could take a very courageous 

          21             step and change the boundary lines of the 

          22             community districts to expand the number 

          23             from the current 32, to as many as 59, and 

          24             to make those boundary lines coterminous 

          25             with those of the planning boards. 




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           2                    As the geography of planning boards 

           3             better reflects the public's sense of 

           4             community, and making the boundary lines 

           5             coterminous, we believe would increase both 

           6             access to school information, and create 

           7             better local efficiency in the delivery of 

           8             services. 

           9                    Indeed, this view was undergirded in 

          10             the rationale behind the expansion of the 

          11             size of City Council from 35 members to 51.  

          12             We also believe that given the experience in 

          13             that process, a pre-clearance from the 

          14             Justice Department would conceivable be 

          15             easily obtained, because it would perhaps 

          16             increase the voting strength of minority 

          17             communities in the City of New York. 

          18                    We wish to also recommend that the 

          19             school boards be replaced by what we call 

          20             community school councils.  It's an entity 

          21             that would consist and be compromised of a 

          22             parent from each of the local district 

          23             school leadership teams.  In addition, that 

          24             council would be represented by four members 

          25             of the local community. 




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           2                    We think that when we've looked at 

           3             the June 2002 law, it invited this 

           4             commission to study the school structures in 

           5             Chicago and in Detroit, and this concept has 

           6             been in practice in those cities, and it has 

           7             been proven to at least to create some level 

           8             of greater accountability, particularly if 

           9             such an entity would have the authority to 

          10             hire and fire principals. 

          11                    We think that we truly agree with the 

          12             comments that have been submitted earlier 

          13             this morning, that talked around a theme of 

          14             real power for parents to create a system of 

          15             accountability, and I think that if parents 

          16             and such an entity or council  -- I heard 

          17             Jan Atwell talk about sort of a mid level 

          18             district level concept, that we would agree 

          19             with, but if it had the authority to hire 

          20             and fire principals, that would truly be in 

          21             the spirit of the greater accountability on 

          22             the local level and empowered parents in the 

          23             process. 

          24                    So these recommendations we believe 

          25             would breath new life back into what was 




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           2             behind the 1969 decentralization law to make 

           3             local communities have real influence and 

           4             power of the school process.  Thank you very 

           5             much.

           6                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you very 

           7             much, Mr. Gill.  Well, we thank you very 

           8             much for that testimony.  You should know, 

           9             sir, that one of the issues that has come up 

          10             in some of our meetings of the task force is 

          11             the question, at least perhaps the 

          12             possibility, of moving towards community 

          13             school districts that do reflect the 

          14             planning board lines.  As you indicated, 

          15             they're smaller.  They seem to reflect the 

          16             sense of what communities are today. 

          17                    So I think that your idea is 

          18             certainly something that you can be certain 

          19             we will be talking about over the next few 

          20             weeks, and we appreciate you giving us your 

          21             thoughts and your elaboration on it.  Thank 

          22             you, sir.

          23                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you.     

          24             Brenda Cyrus, an organizer for Central 

          25             Brooklyn Churches.  Good afternoon.




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           2                    MS. CYRUS:   Good afternoon, task 

           3             force.  Good afternoon audience.  My name is 

           4             Brenda Cyrus.  I have four sons.  I am a 

           5             member of the executive board of the PTA at 

           6             my son's junior high school in East New 

           7             York, Brooklyn.  I am also a member of the 

           8             school leadership team. 

           9                    I am here today in my role as a 

          10             member of the Bed Stuy parent union of 

          11             Central Brooklyn Churches, which is a member 

          12             of the parent organization consumption.  My 

          13             remarks will focus on the needs to reform 

          14             school leadership teams. 

          15                    As a participating parent on the 

          16             school leadership team, I observe that the 

          17             principals exert tremendous influence and 

          18             control over the teams.  On many occasions, 

          19             parents involvement is weak because they 

          20             don't know the right questions to ask or 

          21             they haven't received any training. 

          22                    From my discussions with parents in 

          23             Bed Stuy, Brooklyn, many have complained 

          24             that the meetings for the school leadership 

          25             teams don't begin until late as of November.  




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           2             At that point, a significant portion of the 

           3             school year has already been wasted. 

           4                    To address problems, the Bed Stuy 

           5             parent union recommends the following:  All 

           6             members of the school leadership team must 

           7             be required to attend two full day training 

           8             sessions.  Such training must be performed 

           9             by an outside standing institution that will 

          10             teach parents the skills on conducting 

          11             effective meetings and methods of holding 

          12             public officials accountable.  Two, to 

          13             ensure that there is meaningful parent 

          14             involvement that carries with it real power.  

          15             The school leadership team must be given the 

          16             authority to hire and fire principals.  

          17             Principals in local schools should be 

          18             accountable to local communities, rather 

          19             than a distant and removed Mayor. 

          20                    This reform measure is being done in 

          21             Detroit and in Chicago and it has been 

          22             proven to be very effective. 

          23                    Three, finally, school leadership 

          24             teams should complete their selection of 

          25             members by June and schedule and complete 




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           2             training by August of each year.  This step 

           3             is important so that when the school doors 

           4             open in September, the school leadership 

           5             team will be really ready to begin to meet, 

           6             rather than scramble to find members to join 

           7             the teams, as is the practice to many 

           8             schools today. 

           9                    Given the Mayor's recent actions to 

          10             centralize most of the power within the 

          11             school system, it is critically important to 

          12             expand the power of school leadership teams, 

          13             so that we have a real democracy and check 

          14             and balance on the Mayor.  Thank you.

          15                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

          16                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, thank you 

          17             very much, Ms. Cyrus.  Let me just see if we 

          18             have a question.  Yes.  Mr. Ernest Clayton.

          19                    MS. CLAYTON:   Ms. Cyrus, how you 

          20             doing?  Thank you for your testimony.  I 

          21             just wanted to assure you that the United 

          22             Parents Association, along with the Urban 

          23             League, you know, we're very interested in 

          24             the school leadership team, because we know 

          25             the significance of professional development 




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           2             for parents, because parents do want to get 

           3             involved, but if you don't have the tools or 

           4             the equipment, you cannot do the job.

           5                    So I want to assure you, because you 

           6             haven't been the first one to come up here 

           7             and mention that there needs to be training 

           8             and there needs to be more input and clout 

           9             by the school leadership teams, that this 

          10             task force is committed to, along with our 

          11             call, to come up with an alternative 

          12             recommendation for the community school 

          13             boards, we're also going to be looking at 

          14             ways to strengthen school leadership teams.  

          15             There's no doubt about that, and to try to 

          16             see if we can come up with a way that even 

          17             resources can be earmarked for parents to 

          18             get professional development.

          19                    MS. CYRUS:    Thank you.

          20                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We want to thank 

          21             you very much, Ms. Cyrus, for being here and 

          22             for the work that you have done and continue 

          23             to do on behalf of the Central Brooklyn 

          24             Churches, and so many, many thousands of 

          25             persons who rely on your organization for 




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           2             spiritual and civic guidance.  We thank you 

           3             very much.

           4                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Has Margaret 

           5             Kelly returned?  If not, we have her 

           6             testimony, and we'll incorporate it into the 

           7             file. 

           8                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Let me just ask 

           9             at this moment, is there anyone in the room 

          10             who has filled out a card to testify this 

          11             afternoon who we have not called?  Let me 

          12             say this, because of the size of our 

          13             pre-registration, we had indicated that if 

          14             there were more people who wanted to testify 

          15             today than who had signed up, we will be 

          16             unable to do that, and if we had time later 

          17             this evening, because we have over 100 

          18             people to hear from.  You had signed a card, 

          19             ma'am?

          20                    AUDIENCE MEMBER:   Yes.  One of my 

          21             board members signed up.  Unfortunately he 

          22             was unable to make it, but I signed up.

          23                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Who was that you 

          24             were going --

          25                    AUDIENCE MEMBER:    Lloyd Roberts.




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           2                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    That's the 

           3             evening session.  And how about you, sir, 

           4             behind over by the wall there, did you sign 

           5             up for testimony as well?

           6                    AUDIENCE MEMBER:    Yes, I did.

           7                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    You filled out 

           8             a card?

           9                    AUDIENCE MEMBER:   Yes, I did.

          10                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We're just going 

          11             to pause for a moment.  Just relax for a 

          12             moment.  Let me just explain how we will 

          13             proceed.  We do have a little bit of time.  

          14             There are individuals who had signed up 

          15             several weeks ago who are either not 

          16             choosing to attend or have not arrived yet.  

          17             So we do have a little bit of time right 

          18             now, and we will call several additional 

          19             people who indicated that they wanted to 

          20             testify. 

          21                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    First, Sharon 

          22             Shapiro Lacks.  Deputy director, Center for 

          23             Independence of the Disabled in New York.

          24                    MS. SHAPIRO LACKS:   We will be 

          25             submitting formal and more extensive 




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           2             testimony.  That's why we didn't sign up to 

           3             speak today, but I do feel compelled to kind 

           4             of bookmark other concerns so that when you 

           5             do get the testimony, you'll have a face to 

           6             refer back to. 

           7                    The new continuum has yet to be 

           8             implemented in New York City.  The new 

           9             continuum says that each and every child is 

          10             entitled to the support services that they 

          11             need to make their education worth while and 

          12             their transition into the community 

          13             effective. 

          14                    In the Mayor's proposal, we see no 

          15             inclusion of parents of students with 

          16             disabilities, whether they be a parent like 

          17             mine or not a parent like children with 

          18             learning disabilities.  At each level there 

          19             should be a parent representative of someone 

          20             who has to work with these special services 

          21             so that our needs are known by all parents 

          22             and in all the governance.

          23                    So we hope that this panel, please, 

          24             take this into consideration, and we will be 

          25             developing testimony around this point. 




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           2                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you very 

           3             much.  I don't know if you were here earlier 

           4             when the Chancellor testified, but a number 

           5             of us here on the task force did express 

           6             concern to him about district 75 and the 

           7             role of parents in governance, parents of 

           8             children with special needs.

           9                    MS. SHAPIRO LACKS:    Not only 

          10             district 75, but the superintendency, where 

          11             they have transition coordinators.  We are 

          12             very concerned about those positions and 

          13             that service.  Thank you.

          14                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

          15                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, we thank 

          16             you very much.  We have to acknowledge that 

          17             your testimony is especially difficult.  You 

          18             have made an even extra effort to be here 

          19             with us today.  We appreciate it very much.

          20                    MS. SHAPIRO LACKS:    I know I'm 

          21             only traveling to Manhattan, so this was 

          22             easy.

          23                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, it may 

          24             have been easy for you.  It would have been 

          25             tough for me.  Thank you very much.




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           2                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Carmen Colon, 

           3             parent.

           4                    MS. COLON:   Good afternoon.  I must 

           5             say I had no intention of speaking today.  

           6             I'm very new at this and I felt extremely 

           7             compelled, simply because of everything that 

           8             I have heard that I thought that maybe if 

           9             parents heard my situation and felt that 

          10             they felt the same way, at least they would 

          11             feel somewhat represented. 

          12                    I'll be very quick.  Now who I am and 

          13             what my nationality is should be of no 

          14             consequence.  I'm merely a parent of three 

          15             young boys living in New York City.  Now my 

          16             sons are what I consider my greatest 

          17             accomplishments.  Their ages run the gamut 

          18             and I have had a taste what it is like 

          19             nowadays to have a child in elementary 

          20             school, middle school and high school. 

          21                    Being a product of the school system 

          22             myself, I can safely say things have 

          23             changed.  There is no need to list the 

          24             changes, as there is enough testimony and 

          25             proof to show that children are no longer 




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           2             being taught and provided for in the same 

           3             manner that we were 30 years ago. 

           4                    There are more children now, 

           5             different cultures to consider, and 

           6             different methods of teaching.  There's been 

           7             one thing that I have found to be 

           8             consistent, there's a lack of respect for 

           9             difference.  In every level of governance 

          10             from the PTA at the local school level and 

          11             all the way up to the Chancellor's Advisory 

          12             Council, I have seen a lack of respect for 

          13             people. 

          14                    I feel that no matter what changes 

          15             are made to pacify the masses and the powers 

          16             that be, they will not make a dent in the 

          17             underlying problem.  People are simply not 

          18             being taught to respect one another.  

          19             Without respect, there is no trust and 

          20             without no trust, there is no fellowship.  

          21             No sense of community or no belonging. 

          22                    Because any system can be put in 

          23             place and expected to work, there must be a 

          24             set of players willing to commit to the 

          25             roles that they have been appointed, elected 




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           2             or hired into.  They must be taught to 

           3             respect and work with one another and 

           4             training is always been a key towards 

           5             acquiring a successful team. 

           6                    Ask me about community school boards 

           7             and I will tell you that my experiences have 

           8             not been positive.  Upon being elected to 

           9             the position of PTA president, it was 

          10             several of the community school boards 

          11             members who now currently serve as executive 

          12             board members in my district, who chose to 

          13             do whatever they could to have the election 

          14             overturned, all very simply without knowing 

          15             me or having met me or worked with me. 

          16                    They knew my opponent, and that 

          17             appeared to have been enough for them.  

          18             Forget that the large election was the 

          19             largest in many years that the school has 

          20             had.  Forget that my name is so common, that 

          21             there were two other parents in my school 

          22             with the same name.  Forget the fact that I 

          23             had the majority of the votes. 

          24                    I really was amazed when a community 

          25             school board member, who is also a parent in 




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           2             my school, chose to publicly endorse my 

           3             opponent in e-mails to all of the parents, 

           4             as well as in the New York Times, days prior 

           5             to our election. 

           6                    And did I mention that the previous 

           7             PTA president whom I ran against, enjoyed 

           8             flaunting her personal relationship with the 

           9             superintendent and the community school 

          10             board to those that questioned her 

          11             authority. 

          12                    You see, where I come from, having a 

          13             degree and good friends in high places are a 

          14             prerequisite for serving on a PTA.  Goodness 

          15             forbid if you have an accent and receive 

          16             Section 8. 

          17                    Ask me about President's Council in 

          18             my district, and as my district's 

          19             co-president, I can tell you we haven't any 

          20             power.  We are in a district where the 

          21             superintendent finds parents to be a 

          22             hinderance.  We've had but one meeting all 

          23             year so far, a meeting that the 

          24             superintendent ran.  We made attempts to 

          25             hold the meeting away from the District 




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           2             Office, to train our parents, and two days 

           3             prior to that meeting we were bumped. 

           4                    Yet, you see when the superintendent 

           5             staff meet me, because she continues to find 

           6             a reason not to, I'm told to beware, because 

           7             she's the Chancellor's darling, a favorite 

           8             among the new chiefs.  To ask for 

           9             accountability on the part of the 

          10             superintendent would be signing a death 

          11             warrant for my new career as a parent 

          12             representative. 

          13                    I want to just pull away from it, 

          14             because what I understood when I ran for PTA 

          15             president, what I understood when I ran for 

          16             co-president of President's Council, is that 

          17             I was going to be a representative of the 

          18             parents, not their leader, a representative. 

          19                    So I took those posts seriously, and 

          20             I figured, using some common sense, is to 

          21             take everything that they told me, sat down 

          22             and have conversations, and get an idea of 

          23             what would be needed that would try and help 

          24             the majority. 

          25                    I can't even do that.  I haven't been 




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           2             able to go past phase one.  So I have been 

           3             an ineffective representative in my 

           4             district, and I feel that.  I feel that 

           5             burden.  I do not want you to think that 

           6             it's nothing but horror stories.  You see, I 

           7             feel it is not a personal attack on me, but 

           8             what I represent.  Unfortunately, what I 

           9             have experienced is more than norm here, and 

          10             I've had many positive connections with 

          11             people, as well as negative. 

          12                    I have met people willing to give 

          13             everything they've got to get the job done.  

          14             There have been parents, teachers, 

          15             principals, district DOE staff members that 

          16             have made it their life's calling.  What has 

          17             made this bearable is the respect that we've 

          18             shown one another, and the lingering hope 

          19             that one day, someone in a real position to 

          20             make a difference, will take the first step 

          21             to making things right. 

          22                    I truly wish  -- well, who I am and 

          23             what I am should be of no consequence, but 

          24             it is.  I'm treated in different ways 

          25             because of it.  What schools I've attended 




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           2             and what degrees I've received should be of 

           3             no consequence, but they are.  How much I 

           4             make and where I live should be of no 

           5             consequence, but it seems to matter to 

           6             others. 

           7                    These obstacles must be removed if 

           8             people are expected to work together, and 

           9             these are times where I'm tempted to list my 

          10             professional successes or the organizations 

          11             that I've worked alongside.  The respect 

          12             that I've received by people in power, but 

          13             the only thing that holds my tongue is it's 

          14             not about me and it's not about them, it's 

          15             about the children. 

          16                    People must stop worrying about their 

          17             places within these systems, old and new, 

          18             and they must focus on the needs of the 

          19             children.  We must teach relationships first 

          20             before we can expect our children and 

          21             ourselves to interact with one another, and 

          22             they must become all of our greatest 

          23             accomplishments.  Thank you. 

          24                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Ms. Colon, we 

          25             thank you very much.  We're very happy that 




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           2             you did decide to testify, and we're very 

           3             happy that the schedule worked out so that 

           4             we were able to hear you.  We would have had 

           5             your testimony in any event, but the power 

           6             of your personal testimony was I think very 

           7             impressive for all of us.

           8                    MS. COLON:    I appreciate the 

           9             opportunity.

          10                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    I was just 

          11             going to hope Robin would comment.

          12                    MS. BROWN:   Carmen, I share your 

          13             pain.  I've experienced that, but you know, 

          14             just hold the faith and just keep on pushing 

          15             it.

          16                    MS. COLON:    If I may make one 

          17             comment, I am still very proud that I don't 

          18             know any of you.  I mean, in a sense  -- let 

          19             me say it another way.  Let me explain what 

          20             I mean.  The only person I happen to have 

          21             had any affiliation with  --

          22                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    You were doing 

          23             so well up to that point.

          24                    MS. COLON:    And I will do so much 

          25             better.  I want to explain something.  None 




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           2             of you pay my rent.  I don't owe any of you 

           3             any favors.  We've never worked together.  

           4             So in that respect, I am proud to say that 

           5             my dedication is simply toward those parents 

           6             that look to me to represent them. 

           7                    I mean, working with you guys in the 

           8             future, who knows.  I may not even be here, 

           9             because once this is heard, they might not 

          10             vote me back in June, but the point is, it 

          11             should not matter who our friends are.  What 

          12             communities or committees we've worked on.  

          13             So that's the only point I'm trying to bring 

          14             out.

          15                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Before Robin 

          16             speaks, can I just say something?  The 

          17             Chancellor this morning told us when we were 

          18             talking about parents feeling isolated, that 

          19             he gets e-mails every day and that he has 

          20             personnel intervening in some cases with 

          21             PTAs, and you know, overruled 

          22             superintendents.  Could I suggest you send 

          23             him an e-mail?

          24                    MS. COLON:    I have, and he's 

          25             responded, and I also respect the fact that 




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           2             he understands that it's not  -- if it's a 

           3             personality issue, then we need training or 

           4             we need to sit down and work together.  That 

           5             it's not a personal he said, she said sort 

           6             of thing.  We need to learn how to work 

           7             together.

           8                    And it's the mind set.  Sometimes the 

           9             mind set, you have to take them back for 

          10             training, that's all.  If the individual, 

          11             the superintendent has a fabulous academic 

          12             record, and they chose those people, but 

          13             they have very poor people skills, then that 

          14             person needs to be retrained.  And right 

          15             now, there's so many  -- there's so much 

          16             power in their hands and there's so much 

          17             that is expected of them, that after a 

          18             while, it gets skewed.

          19                    In terms of parents and parent 

          20             organizations, I'm very new to this.  But I 

          21             would really like to get rid of the 

          22             arrogance that comes across when I speak to 

          23             some other parents, because they feel that 

          24             they're privileged because of the degree 

          25             they hold or what neighborhood they live in.  




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           2             And there's a couple of things I'd like to 

           3             say, but that's not the point.  It's not 

           4             about them.  It's not about that.  Thank 

           5       you.

           6                    MS. BROWN:    Well, I'd like to 

           7             share your sentiments about respect.  Not to 

           8             make this personal, but even within my own 

           9             daughter's school, even though they know 

          10             that Robin chairs the Chancellor's Parent 

          11             Advisory Council, that Robin is sitting as 

          12             part of this task force, I am still greeted 

          13             with that same level of disrespect. 

          14                    I entered my daughter's school this 

          15             morning at 7:30 this morning.  She was 

          16             involved in some sort of incident the prior 

          17             afternoon, and the first thing the principal 

          18             said to me -- and I purposely went there at 

          19             that hour because I knew there would be no 

          20             children in the building and no teachers in 

          21             the building -- and she politely said to me, 

          22             while she's having her coffee, "Make an 

          23             appointment and come back." 

          24                    So just think about the level of 

          25             disrespect for parents, and that is as a 




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           2             parent quote/unquote leader, so you know 

           3             what parents are feeling that are not 

           4             involved in these type of organizations, you 

           5             know what they're feeling.

           6                    MS. COLON:    I look forward to 

           7             sitting here until 11:59.

           8                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you.

           9                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Thank you very 

          10             much.

          11                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:   Rose Seabrook, 

          12             a member of community school board 5.

          13                    MS. SEABROOK:   Good evening.  I'd 

          14             just like to add that in addition to being a 

          15             member of community school board five in 

          16             Central Harlem, I'm also a parent and I'm 

          17             also very much involved with two groups that 

          18             were formed to work on specifically in terms 

          19             of this cause and what the task force is 

          20             doing. 

          21                    This actually is an addendum to 

          22             testimony that I gave on December 10 in 

          23             Manhattan, and again, my recommendation was 

          24             that in the absence of community school 

          25             boards, that we create something in the 




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           2             order of the civilian complaint review board 

           3             or the office of professional medical 

           4             conduct. 

           5                    I make these comments simply because 

           6             I do have a child who has already gone 

           7             through the public school system.  My 

           8             daughter is currently a sophomore in high 

           9             school, and this whole process has been 

          10             almost like a second job for me.  It is very 

          11             grueling, tiresome, cumbersome and 

          12             frustrating.  And while we do have a new 

          13             day, I'm sorry, but I just cannot trust the 

          14             Mayor as he's asking us to do, and it would 

          15             be I think so much better if we had an 

          16             independent board in place that could 

          17             produce some form of adjudication for 

          18             parents.  When we have complaints against 

          19             teachers, we go to the principals. 

          20                    For me, it has just not been 

          21             effective.  We go to superintendents when we 

          22             have a problem with the principals.  It just 

          23             has not been effective, and I'll be brief 

          24             and give an example.  By the time my son was 

          25             in sixth grade, he had been in five 




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           2             different public schools, and it's just 

           3             really horrible. 

           4                    I could have gone through the same 

           5             thing with my daughter, but I knew that it 

           6             was just not going to be effective, so I 

           7             just sort of bore through it, but in any 

           8             event, I just simply want to say that it's 

           9             very, very important that we have a system 

          10             in place that is effective.  That has teeth.  

          11             That can perform disciplinary measures and 

          12             be they maybe getting teachers the training 

          13             that they need.  Maybe suspending their 

          14             licenses, revoking it, whatever.  We really 

          15             do need to having have something in place, 

          16             other than the Mayor saying that in four 

          17             years we can vote him out. 

          18                    On the last page I gave a comparison 

          19             analysis of the two bodies I just mentioned, 

          20             the civilian complaint review board, and 

          21             their purpose is very clear.  Their 

          22             authority is clear.  These are civilians 

          23             with the civilian complaint review board.  

          24             As of 1993, it's an all civilian board.  It 

          25             is independent.  The office of professional 




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           2             medical conduct on the other hand consists 

           3             of 200 people, both mixed, lay and 

           4             professional people.  So I really think that 

           5             we do need something like this, and again, 

           6             the educators are professionals.  They are 

           7             licensed, and they should be subject to the 

           8             same as any other licensed professionals.  

           9             And again, I'll just end with that.

          10                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, we thank 

          11             you very much for joining us again today.  I 

          12             remember you from our  -- in fact, it was 

          13             our first hearing, and I think -- do we have 

          14             a question, Mr. Clayton?

          15                    MR. CLAYTON:    Yes.  How you doing, 

          16             Ms. Seabrook?

          17                    MS. SEABROOK:    I'm well, thank 

          18             you.

          19                    MR. CLAYTON:    I'm in district five, 

          20             so I have a real passion for district five, 

          21             and the Chancellor gave his speech there 

          22             yesterday -- not the Chancellor, the Mayor.  

          23             I'm sorry.

          24                    MS. SEABROOK:    Can I just add that 

          25             it was not well publicized.  I didn't know 




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           2             about it until it was actually happening, 

           3             and this is the kind of thing that we do 

           4             need to avoid.

           5                    MR. CLAYTON:    Right.  He pointed 

           6             out some data that we all know too well, 

           7             that over 80 percent of the district is 

           8             failing, and I just wanted to know, what can 

           9             we do in district five, because district 

          10             five has been a sore spot in our system for 

          11             quite a long time, and right now, as you 

          12             know, is undergoing a massive development, a 

          13             Renaissance if you will, a second 

          14             Renaissance, and a community is not worth 

          15             much if the school system in that community 

          16             is in shambles.  It won't be long before 

          17             that community will fall. 

          18                    So I mean, what can we do to get to 

          19             the parents, because United Parents 

          20             Association, we're in district five a lot, 

          21             because I'm from that district, and I try to 

          22             extend the organization to work closely with 

          23             the parents there.  But you know, there 

          24             seems to be disconnect with the parents, 

          25             unless there's a crisis, you know, they 




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           2             won't come out.  And you being on the school 

           3             board there, how can we engage them a little 

           4             better to get them to come out, because that 

           5             is a concern of ours?

           6                    MS. SEABROOK:    Okay.  I did say 

           7             that for me being an active parent, it's 

           8             been like a second job.  I think that it 

           9             calls upon a lot in terms of parents, and I 

          10             think that's a question for the community.  

          11             I cannot answer that for the community, but 

          12             I answer for myself. 

          13                    I know that it has really taken a lot 

          14             for me to make certain that my children get 

          15             educated, and I feel that I shouldn't have 

          16             to work that hard as a parent, and we have 

          17             professionals in place.  There's enormous 

          18             professional development that continues to 

          19             go on, and I quite frankly don't understand 

          20             why I as a parent have to work as hard as I 

          21             do to make sure my child gets educated.

          22                    MR. CLAYTON:    I understand, but I 

          23             got to tell you, being a parent is hard 

          24             work.  I have six sons and if I didn't work 

          25             as hard as I did, I know exactly where 




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           2             they'd be.

           3                    MS. SEABROOK:    Well, I'm not 

           4             talking about working hard as a parent, I'm 

           5             talking about in terms of getting our 

           6             children educated.  There are people that 

           7             are getting paid salaries to do that, and 

           8             it's not happening.  I mean, I've had my son 

           9             in Saturday academies, after-school 

          10             programs, and if I didn't do that, he would 

          11             have never have gone to Bronx High School of 

          12             Science.  He would have never gotten full 

          13             scholarship to college, and I take 

          14             responsibility as a parent, but again, I 

          15             feel that it was an incredible job, and here 

          16             I am doing the same thing all over again.  

          17             And I only have two children.  I can't 

          18             imagine doing that for six.

          19                    MR. CLAYTON:    Thank you.

          20                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, again, we 

          21             thank you very, very much for joining us 

          22             again, and your testimony, your personal 

          23             experiences, your recommendations are very 

          24             important to us.  We thank you.

          25                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Ellen Raider.  




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           2             After Ms. Raider, we'll begin to call people 

           3             who  had not signed up previously, but who 

           4             did fill out cards today.  We have a number 

           5             of you here.

           6                    MS. RAIDER:   Hi.  How are you?

           7                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you for 

           8             coming this afternoon.

           9                    MS. RADAR:    You're welcome.  My 

          10             name is Ellen Raider, and before I retired  

          11             -- you can see these gray hairs -- I was the 

          12             training director and co-founder of the 

          13             International Center for Cooperation & 

          14             Conflict Resolution at Teachers College, 

          15             Columbia University.  Over the past 15 years 

          16             in that professional capacity, I was called 

          17             upon to intervene as trainer or mediator in 

          18             many adult disputes in the New York City 

          19             public school system.  It is my professional 

          20             observation that the level of cooperation 

          21             within the New York system, as in other top 

          22             down bureaucracies, is currently 

          23             underdeveloped. 

          24                    Trust is low.  The new 

          25             administration's ability to succeed will 




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           2             depend in large part on their skills in 

           3             fostering cooperation and reestablishing 

           4             trust, a worthwhile but not an easy task.  

           5             And I commend the Freddy Ferrer report on 

           6             Drum Major, about how important 

           7             relationships need to be built with the 

           8             community one school at a time.  Governance 

           9             alone will not do that.

          10                    So this a paradox.  Research has 

          11             shown that seemingly intractable 

          12             conflicts -- and I call the school system 

          13             and its relationship with parents a 

          14             seemingly intractable conflict -- it doesn't 

          15             get solved, no matter what happens on top, 

          16             can be solved collaboratively, if all 

          17             stakeholders involved can sit at the table 

          18             as equal partners.  A power analysis of our 

          19             educational systems shows clearly that 

          20             parents are not on a level playing field.  

          21             This lack of real power affects all parents, 

          22             but is most acutely felt in poor and working 

          23             class neighborhoods of color.

          24                    This proposal is about giving 

          25             parents, through their elected 




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           2             representatives, a real seat at the table by 

           3             writing into law a parent oversight and 

           4             advocate function with full staff resources 

           5             and teeth, so that they can then work 

           6             collaboratively with the other three 

           7             players, and what I mean by the other three 

           8             players is the Albany triad, and you know 

           9             who I mean, the Mayor and his appointed 

          10             Chancellor and the unions. 

          11                    Those are the players.  All of these 

          12             players have large operating budgets, 

          13             extensive paid staff, office space and 

          14             access to political power on a daily basis.  

          15             On the other hand, the parents are 

          16             overworked, the parent leadership is 

          17             composed of overworked volunteers, as our 

          18             last speaker clearly states. 

          19                    The argument that parents have power 

          20             as the electorate every four years is 

          21             cynical at best and belies the reality faced 

          22             by parents as they try to get their voices 

          23             heard. 

          24                    Understanding, respect and 

          25             cooperation cannot easily occur, if the 




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           2             parents do not have a meaningful role in the 

           3             review and oversight of policy, budgets and 

           4             the monitoring of results at all levels of 

           5             the system.  New York City parents should 

           6             have the same oversight as parents do in 

           7             other communities in New York State.

           8                    Under our current system, we have one 

           9             way for parents to have a meaningful role.  

          10             It might be that we create an 

          11             independently -- if we create parent leaders 

          12             who are independently organized, trained, 

          13             supported and advocated for by a paid 

          14             experience staff, much like the staff that 

          15             supports and advocates for the local 

          16             community planning boards. 

          17                    I would like to refer you to my Ross 

          18             Perot chart.  I wish I had a little flip 

          19             chart to refer you to.  My husband and I 

          20             have figured out a system.  It's not the 

          21             only way that we can do this, but it is one 

          22             way of doing it. 

          23                    And I will speak about it in a 

          24             second.  The educational establishment, with 

          25             some exceptions,  has not done a good enough 




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           2             job in making parents want to be part of the 

           3             system.  This theme is repeated over and 

           4             over again, whenever parents are asked to 

           5             testify.  I must say when I came here, I 

           6             heard it in the bathroom before I even came 

           7             to the testimony room. 

           8                    The current parent engagement and 

           9             outreach staff member at each district 

          10             reports to the superintendent.  This job 

          11             function has built in conflicts of interest.  

          12             The person who holds that job has to say, do 

          13             I work for the parents, or do I work for the 

          14             system?  While I applaud the Mayor's 

          15             proposal to put such a job function within 

          16             each school, and evaluate principals on 

          17             their success with parent involvement, this 

          18             idea needs to go one step further.  The 

          19             parents voice can be compromised if it's 

          20             dependent on the same system it needs to 

          21             challenge. 

          22                    What we need is an independent body 

          23             created by state law -- that's you guys -- 

          24             whose sole task is to enhance the civic 

          25             engagement of the parent and students in 




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           2             their efforts to build a more responsive and 

           3             accountable public school system. 

           4                    An independent parent oversight and 

           5             advocacy office established by law, could 

           6             serve this function.  As you see on the 

           7             little chart, I spoke to an Assemblyman, and 

           8             he suggested you could create an entity with 

           9             a board of directors, who would then create 

          10             a public advocate, and the public advocate 

          11             can then select now it would be 100 deputies 

          12             that would work with each cluster, the new 

          13             clusters. 

          14                    I see this deputy that gets selected 

          15             coming from the neighborhoods from that 

          16             cluster.  That person needs to be a parent  

          17             with a track record, knowing their community 

          18             and having a track record of educational 

          19             advocacy. 

          20                    So this whole system here, would then 

          21             relate to the existing structures we have in 

          22             the board, the parent structures.  On this 

          23             one line -- and for people in the audience, 

          24             if you want a copy, I have one -- on this 

          25             one line are the current PTA structures that 




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           2             meet and President's Councils that meet at 

           3             city-wide levels. 

           4                    If you'll notice on the next line are 

           5             the leadership teams that can meet in 

           6             district-wide leadership teams that can be 

           7             in city-wide structures.  I've enhanced the 

           8             parents councils at the district and the 

           9             city-wide level, by allowing at large 

          10             community members.  And what I mean by that 

          11             would be independent, recognized, advocacy 

          12             and civic organizations that care about 

          13             education, that can support the parents in 

          14             their efforts to get things done and 

          15             understand the system. 

          16                    So the main function of this whole 

          17             structure, at the district level it would be 

          18             independent support and training.  At the 

          19             city-wide level, the advocate would hear all 

          20             the data coming up from the system, and then 

          21             be able to talk with the Mayor or Chancellor 

          22             Klein about the patterns that they see that 

          23             are not working. 

          24                    So the district-wide level would work 

          25             with the leadership structure of the PTAs 




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           2             and the school leadership teams to 

           3             independently train them, support them, 

           4             mediate and help them in their organizing 

           5             efforts.  So it's a self-help civic 

           6             engagement with a paid staff. 

           7                    You might say, how is this going to 

           8             be funded? 

           9                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    And we're going 

          10             to need for you to tell us that in 30 

          11             seconds now.  I know that it's a brief time. 

          12                    MS. RAIDER:    Okay.  The 

          13             Chancellor's proposal of putting a staff 

          14             member in every school, I figured would 

          15             probably cost about $60,000,000.  That's 

          16             what the cost is of a person in 1,200 

          17             schools.  $12,000,000 would be what it takes 

          18             to fund this kind of function.  And it 

          19             either could be existing as a separate 

          20             organization that you create, or it can be 

          21             subsumed under Betsy Gotbaum's office, the 

          22             Public Advocate. 

          23                    So if the Chancellor can come up with 

          24             $60,000,000 to do this, he can come up with 

          25             $12,000,000 more to make this happen.  And 




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           2             it should be a pass through from the board.  

           3             It shouldn't be dependent on the board, and 

           4             their good graces.  It should be a pass 

           5             through that you legislate by law that goes 

           6             to this independent body. 

           7                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Well, we thank 

           8             you very much, Ms. Raider.  That is a  -- 

           9             the diagram, much better than anything I saw 

          10             Ross Perot present.  It's very clear.  I 

          11             think it certainly demonstrates some very 

          12             coherent thinking on your part, and I can 

          13             tell you we're going to think very seriously 

          14             about it. 

          15                    MS. RAIDER:    Good.  Thank you.

          16                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    And we thank you 

          17             very much.

          18                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    The Honorable 

          19             Josephina Johnson, community school board 

          20             18, among other organizations. 

          21                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Just for the 

          22             edification of the people in the audience 

          23             and the panel members, in about 15 minutes 

          24             we will be taking our break for dinner, at 

          25             which point we will be returning at 6:00 or 




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           2             thereabouts.  People who have signed on who 

           3             have not pre-registered, I regret to say we 

           4             will try to get to you, but it won't be 

           5             until much later in the evening. 

           6                    We will be here very late, but then 

           7             we will have to go to our regular schedule 

           8             at 6:00.  So we will do our best to hear as 

           9             many people as we can. 

          10                    MS. JOHNSON:    Good evening.  Thank 

          11             you to the task force.  My name is Ms. 

          12             Josephina Johnson, the honorable, but the 

          13             children call me J.J.  I would like to say 

          14             when I came on board -- why I'm sitting here 

          15             now is because there's a generation gap they 

          16             tell me.  There's no generation gap, it's 

          17             just a matter of listening to the children, 

          18             and then you'll understand. 

          19                    I represent children.  I've always 

          20             represented children.  When I first came and 

          21             migrated here to this country,  I was 

          22             second, third grade, and at the time, we 

          23             didn't have teachers trained about bilingual 

          24             situations, and there was two of us in the 

          25             class, a young man student and myself that 




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           2             were just coming speaking Spanish.  They 

           3             told us Spanish was bad. 

           4                    He had it so bad, unfortunately he 

           5             hung himself at lunch time with his belt.  

           6             Ever since then I promised myself that I 

           7             will be there, because that was such a loss.

           8                    In the meantime, I want to tell you 

           9             how I got to the school board and why I'm 

          10             speaking today.  I had no plans to speak.  I 

          11             was going to listen, because I spoke at City 

          12             Hall.  What happened is the children came to 

          13             me, and they did my election, organized and 

          14             formulated from the little ones all the way 

          15             up to the college group. 

          16                    I must say, it's been a pleasure 

          17             being a school board member.  Unfortunately, 

          18             we had a lot of training at the Board of Ed.  

          19             We couldn't implement too many things 

          20             because the time was being limited for my 

          21             one term.  The extension of one year was 

          22             excellent. 

          23                    In the meantime, I suggest that 

          24             that's what we need to do with parents, 

          25             teaching them the parliamentary procedure of 




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           2             Robert's Rules, etcetera, as well as what's 

           3             to be done, but what I'm concerned about is 

           4             children, because I go to a lot of 

           5             children's funerals from asthma and all 

           6             kinds of conditions, such as getting hit by 

           7             a car, coming out of school, playing.

           8                    I am up 24/7 through the week, 

           9             whenever they need me.  They tell my why 

          10             they joined gangs, because they can't speak 

          11             to the teachers, they can't speak to the 

          12             parents, they come to me.  I try to keep 

          13             them out.  Two summers ago I had, what, 

          14             1,500 or so children in my backyard for the 

          15             whole summer I've been counseling.  Because 

          16             I was a union rep before with DC 37. 

          17                    Before that I did paralegal work 

          18             representing the welfare ABC children.  It's 

          19             always been children.  I've worked with the 

          20             parents, yes, and I get all kinds of calls 

          21             from all over.  What I have done while they 

          22             were educating us down at Board of Ed, I 

          23             stayed to every class so I could network 

          24             with the other districts, so when anyone 

          25             called me from anywhere, I would have 




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           2             someone in the district that I could reach 

           3             out to to help that child or that parent. 

           4                    I think it's very important that when 

           5             you're implementing anything, you consider 

           6             the generation gap.  They don't have to be.  

           7             All you have to do is listen to children, 

           8             and someone should be around -- I hope you 

           9             implement it -- for 24/7, so these children 

          10             would have someplace or someone, some haven 

          11             to go to to keep from dying, because joining 

          12             gangs is just creating another family.  

          13             That's what they told me. 

          14                    And my husband died last year.  The 

          15             children came to my house, strange enough, 

          16             and they wanted to know was I going to move, 

          17             since my husband died, because they were 

          18             concerned, because they said no one cares, 

          19             and they needed me to stay here.  I had no 

          20             plans on moving, but just to tell you a 

          21             little sentiments of how children think from 

          22             all levels. 

          23                    I had another young person during the 

          24             time they stayed at my yard for seven weeks, 

          25             he came, he said his parents was having 




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           2             problems at home.  They were separated.  

           3             They were tearing him apart.  He didn't know 

           4             what to do.  His grades were going down.  So 

           5             I listened to him and I told him, think 

           6             about it.  Your parents had you through 

           7             love.  They're separated, that's not your 

           8             problem.  Your problem is to enhance your 

           9             education, so you can upright and stand up 

          10             and be able to be self-supporting to 

          11             yourself. 

          12                    So I'm letting you know that with all 

          13             that was said today, what made me speak was, 

          14             I'm speaking on behalf of children.  The 

          15             parents, I understand what their needs are 

          16             to some degree, because I deal with a lot of 

          17             them.  But my key issue is the children. 

          18                    Last year they explained to me that I 

          19             could not give a humanitarian award at the 

          20             graduation.  Some of you, all same 

          21             educators, principals told me no, for 

          22             whatever personal reason or political 

          23             reason, I don't know.  I don't care about 

          24             that, and titles, and who's the president 

          25             and whatever.  The fact is, I was able to 




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           2             get it done, because humanitarian award, 

           3             with all the scholastic, is inclusive of all 

           4             children on all levels.  Letting them know 

           5             humanitarian.  To be kind.  To be decent and 

           6             help someone else, your peers, is what you 

           7             need. 

           8                    So please, when you make your 

           9             decision, consider the children.  Thank you. 

          10                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Thank you very 

          11             much.

          12                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    J.J., you said 

          13             we could call you J.J., thank you very much. 

          14                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    We'll be able 

          15             to do a few more speakers, but we've said to 

          16             anyone who called in late or who signed up 

          17             today, we're limiting the add-ons to 

          18             three-minute testimony.  Irene Varon.  I 

          19             don't think she's here anymore.  Betty 

          20             Minter.  Yvonne Dades.  Linda Sanders.  

          21             Mario Aguila.  Valerie Hill.  Mr. Britton. 

          22                    MR. BRITTON:    Good afternoon.  I'm 

          23             here as a parent, and then I'm here as one 

          24             of the best qualified parents in the City of 

          25             New York, a father of six.  All graduated 




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           2             under 18.  Headed to Warton.  From Warton to 

           3             West Point.  What I'm asking you here is to 

           4             make sure that the Mayor and every elected 

           5             official and parent of this city, push 

           6             education and quality education for all 

           7             public school kids. 

           8                    If not,  go for the vouchers.  Give 

           9             the parents the money.  Let them send their 

          10             kids to the school of their choice.  I 

          11             personally -- I do not think I see 10,000 

          12             African-American professionals in America in 

          13             the area of pilots, doctors, dentists, 

          14             investment bankers.  So I'm asking you to 

          15             make sure that you pick and select the right 

          16             parent.  Not talkers, doers.  I can tell you 

          17             I am a doer. 

          18                    I am a father that went to the 

          19             school, not the mother, and parents, the 

          20             teachers, they call me.  I give them 

          21             respect.  I respect them, our parents too 

          22             must give our teachers respect. 

          23                    We must teach discipline.  We must be 

          24             able to take the African-American preachers 

          25             and tell them come on down and let us take 




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           2             this street back for quality education.  If 

           3             not, the African-American kids will not be a 

           4             competitive student.  We will not be able to 

           5             send our kids to the quality universities in 

           6             this country, nor across this world. 

           7                    So I came to listen, but I'm being 

           8             forced to speak.  I'm forced to speak as a 

           9             parent of six kids.  And a lot of talkers 

          10             across this city pertaining to education.  

          11             Let us stop that.  Let us place the right 

          12             people in the right position.  If the Mayor 

          13             of the City of New York wants to bring about 

          14             change, he must go out and reach out to the 

          15             African-American clergy who just sit, work 

          16             one day.  I have all respect for them.  But 

          17             you must come back in the street.  Come out 

          18             there and stop African-American kids going 

          19             to the jail.  And that's all I'm asking you.

          20                    I'm a father who will come  -- if 

          21             your my kid's teacher, I come to your house 

          22             and talk to you.  If you fail to speak to me 

          23             in the classroom, I come to your house.  I 

          24             wait outside.  I give you that respect.  How 

          25             is my kid doing?  Let us work together in a 




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           2             collective manner that we will make this 

           3             country a strong nation, and let our kids be 

           4             a great competitor in every area. 

           5                    I thank you.  Keep up the good work.  

           6             I no longer going to what you call to the 

           7             teachers now.  My kids, they're 18 plus.  

           8             Not older than 27.  I am grateful to God for 

           9             what I have done for them.  And I will 

          10             continue to do my best for all kids, and 

          11             before I close I want to say the Liberals in 

          12             district 17 community school board, they did 

          13             everything to kick me off.  By the time I 

          14             turn around, there's an order of kick off 

          15             notice.  And I strategized that school board 

          16             election, and that is why today, they are 

          17             four Hasidic Jews who sits on community 

          18             school board 17, because of the incompetence 

          19             to pick stupidity of many.  And I must 

          20             commend the Crown Heights Jewish Council for 

          21             reaching out and competitiveness and that is 

          22             why they sit there, and because of you who 

          23             are talkers and not doers.  All the best. 

          24                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    We thank you 

          25             very much, Mr. Britton.  Thank you for being 




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           2             here. 

           3                    CHAIRWOMAN THOMSON:    Vivian Natale.  

           4             Honorable Dawn Jones.  Dr. DeLois Blakely.  

           5             Denise Gordon.  That's it. 

           6                    CHAIRMAN SANDERS:    Okay.  The time 

           7             now is a quarter of 5:00.  We will resume at 

           8             6:00. 

           9                    (TIME NOTED:   4:45 P.M.)

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           2                     CERTIFICATION

           3       

           4                    

           5             I, Edward Leto, a Notary Public in and for 

           6       the State of New York, do hereby certify:

           7             THAT the witness(es) whose testimony is 

           8       herein before set forth, was duly sworn by me; 

           9       and

          10             THAT the within transcript is a true and 

          11       accurate record of the testimony given by said 

          12       witness(es).

          13             I further certify that I am not related 

          14       either by blood or marriage, to any of the 

          15       parties to this action; and

          16             THAT I am in no way interested in the 

          17       outcome of this matter.

          18             IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 

          19       hand this 25th day of January, 2003.

          20       

          21                             

          22                    ---------------------------

          23                           EDWARD LETO

          24       

          25       




                          EN-DE REPORTING, A Spherion Agency

			

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